How does ClassicPress define Businesses as a target market?

#6

A business site (to me) is simply any site that, if it were to go down, it would be losing sales, leads, signups, ad revenue, or awareness, etc. – ie, any of the things professional businesses and organizations want out of their sites.

A site that’s intended to share family recipes between a handful of people wouldn’t be considered a business site, but, if that same site were generating actual ad revenue, then it would. I think it really just depends on the purpose of the site and whether it’s generating anything of value.

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#7

From https://www.classicpress.net/blog/2018/10/29/classicpress-for-business-professional-organization-websites/ :

“we quickly realized that the situation with Gutenberg highlights a distinction between two groups in the WordPress market: bloggers versus business and professional organization* site owners.”

No, serious blogger can prefer CP too, because to write with a TinyMCE is more convienant than with Gutenberg. But he doesn’t consider himself as a “business”. The distinction is in an attitude, not in the site’s purpose. So, IMHO, we should target distinction in developers’ attitude, not the site’s purpose.

The link provided highlights the problem: if you need a long text explaining what you mean, it is the problem. Better to think how to express it in the few words, because nobody will read those explanations. That’s why I say we need better wording in the ClassicPress description, why “versatile…” or “business oriented” didn’t fit the needs.

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Irritations and Expectations: seeking input
#8

If we don’t state who our desired market is, we won’t have a market. WordPress took the ‘all-things-to’all-people’ model as far as they could. I don’t think we should make the same mistake.

To reiterate, bloggers are welcome, and CP will be a great platform for blogs. But we’ll be focusing on business and professional website needs to guide decisions about future improvements.

Finally, there are some website owners for whom WP or Wix or Squarespace may be a better fit. We’re OK with that: we aren’t trying to capture 100% of the market.

The ‘general public’ (aka ‘everyone’) is not who we’re targeting. And that’s on purpose, not out of neglect or lack of inclusiveness. Bloggers can find a happy home with CP, if they wish.

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#9

We should find the weakness in WP and do the opposite. Technically, CP is doing exastly like this. Now we should do it in our communication. My gut is telling me that there should be a better message which tells the message in more dramatic way.

Like, “Changes we don’t believe in”, or “Business websites first”. :slight_smile:

“We’ll be focusing on business and professional website needs” - the same idea, but expressed different, in a more memorable way. I am trying to find one, but I need more time.

#10

Yes, please. If you can think of something succinct and clever from which a professional developer or the CTO of a small-medium-business concludes “This is the perfect platform on which to build a business website”, then by all means, I would love to hear it.

#11

I am thinking, but it takes time. Sometimes months, not weeks. At the same time, I need more input here: Irritations and Expectations: seeking input

This topic is not for the rant, it is for stimulating thinking process. If you can, please, drop some experience there.

#12

Thanks for the invitation, and I appreciate you starting the conversation, but I’m tired of discussing what’s wrong with WordPress (I’ve been there for the last 6-7 years). That conversation is one I may look in on for potential insights, but not one I’m likely to participate in.

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#13

This thread seems like a good place to note the three callout sections we’re planning to have on our new website:

“For Businesses”, “For Bloggers”, “For Developers” - I don’t recall whose idea this was, but I think it’s a good one to emphasize our primary focus first and then explain that we also do a good job meeting the needs of bloggers and developers.

If anyone can help collate the ideas in this thread and similar ones into some copy that would be appropriate for these three specific blocks, we’d appreciate it.

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#14

For my part, I like being able to tinker with my sites. One is more professional; one is more personal. I’m not sure how much of that will change with the new block focus over at WP, but got the impression that some of the usual tinkering will be harder to do. So maybe make the point that people can do as much or as little with a site as they like. It’s great for “tinkerers.”

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#15

From a purely marketing point of view, it would have been wise to call the fork “BusinessPress” :-).

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#16

‘‘The freedom to build whatever you want, as you wish’’.

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#17

Sounds like a long version of “everything to everyone”.

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#18

It’s not about ‘‘everything for everyone’’. First of all, the question is wrong (’‘business as a target market’’). The WordPress motto is ‘‘the freedom to build anything you want’’ - ‘‘for free’’ and I want the same thing from ClassicPress.

CP has to work on the whole area, from simple blogging themes, to websites made with the most performant builders as they did before WP 5.0 - Gutenberg is primarily a threat for the builders. Gutenberg it is a disguised builder, who wants to replace the other builders, becoming a kind of ‘universal builder’.

  1. For simple static pages I really prefer Wix (sorry) under OTHER conditions.
  2. For blogging I just want to write using the default theme, without losing my time with Gutenberg blocks.
  3. For design there are developers who do not need Gutenberg.
  4. ‘‘Business’’ not necessary means ‘‘commerce’’. WooCommerce and other key plugins are under the direct Automattic-WP control, anyway. CP will be behind them with one step on a permanent basis.

If CP it is not intended to be for ‘everyone’… it’s a waste of time. No way to compete with WP in other conditions - for now, at least.
“For Businesses”, “For Bloggers”, “For Developers” - for everyone.

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#19

Away from home at the moment, but some quick (very quick!) ideas to get the ball rolling…

For businesses.
You want to spend your time on running a business, not trying to keep up with the latest trends in web design. So you need a website platform that is stable and reliable… in the long term. And you want it to be secure, so you won’t be worrying about losing business to the inevitable downtime caused by hackers. ClassicPress will give you a secure, predictable website with no surprises, perfect for your business.

For bloggers.
Creativity doesn’t just happen. You often wait for inspiration, and when it hits you need to be able to get in and start writing. Fluently and comfortably, without distractions. ClassicPress gives you the perfect place to get your ideas down in a familiar way. It’s similar to every other text editor you’ve been using, and you won’t get endless complicated design decisions ruining your flow.

For developers.
You’ve been using WordPress for years. You know it inside out. You use it to earn your living. It’s been working well for years and you’ve spent a lot of time developing and perfecting your products for it. Why not stick with the tried and tested platform that we all know and appreciate? Switch to ClassicPress and make more productive use of your valuable time… doing what you love, not juggling blocks.

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#20

@CodePotent whomever doesn’t understand what a business website is, or still thinks of a website as a single item / commodity is (to me) a hobbyist and works with hobbyist clients. Obviously I feel very strongly about this topic having been in digital marketing since the web began back in the nineties. I don’t work with clients unless they have been in business for at least five years, have several employees, have at least tried marketing in some capacity before on a serious level and understand basic concepts around business (such as need for a plan, P&L statements, book keeping, and so forth). This keeps “clients from hell” at bay, and the endless army of “Startup founders” and “CEOs” who don’t have actual businesses making real money. “Anything of value” is key. I’ve had prospects who were “CEOs” only to later admit after the second discussion that their business is in NeverGonnaHappenLand and “speakers” with no prior experience and nothing to work with and no budget and so on and on. You have to set very clear and strong boundaries and expectations or you never can grow a business.

#21

There is no way (at present) CP could work for hobbyists: they can’t find CP, dont’ know what it is (for the vast majority of WP hobbyists out there), could not install it in its present state.

(To me) the future and sustainability in CP lies in its marketing (or lack thereof), and ability to reach legitimate business owners who will pay for “Gutenberg fixes” or for their WP sites to be saved or transitioned over to something more stable and easy to use. This last part is key to reaching an ideal niche audience. It’s an alternative to a changing WP that is becoming more and more less user friendly despite its goal of being the Wix conqueror. Let WP reach for the low hanging fruit. CP should pursue legitimate WP agencies, businesses using WP to earn tangible profits and who want to keep what they have stable and easy to use. So I would state that I contrapuntally disagree with your assessment respectfully sir. What works for a global corporation cannot and should not be the same path for a startup.

#22

No. This is exactly, what can be changed with marketing. Hobbyist, who want to escape Gutenberg, is one of the target market now. Maybe he can’t install a new website, but he can migrate an old one. For a hobbyist to cope with the Gutenberg can be harder that to migrate to CP.

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#23

My two cents.
I am no expert…
But first we need to distinguish.
Business=uses the site to drive money in some way.
Hobbyist=don’t use the site to drive money in
First category is, as @voltaire says, blurred. There are REAL businesses with plans in place that try to do their best, and there are the “NeverToBeBusinesses”. And I agree a dev has to choose which of the two business category is best to serve.
BUT
CP as a CMS can’t choose. I mean, CP gets adopted. How do you avoid bad businesses from choosing CP? A dev can refuse to install CP for them. But CP ecosystem should not and could not make a distinguo among the people installing it. Or are we planning to let a very vetted selection of devs install CP only to good businesses? I am serious about this… :smile:
That said, from my perspective: CP should appeal to everyone as a stable, reliable solution TARGETED TO THE NEEDS OF BUSINESS OWNERS. All the business owners. CP should ask business owners: what are your needs AS A BUSINESS? (And it does, we have PETITIONS).
Then CP should develop with business owners answers in mind.
Then if the casual blogger wants to use CP and learn its particular ways and peculiarities… Just kudos! Nobody will tell him to go away. But he has to know CP listen to business owners. As far as he knows this he can freely use CP.
Another point to make, I think CP traction should not depend on conversion of unsatisfied previous WordPressers. Best way to gain traction is to push it for the creation of new sites. One converted site is good, but… The owner will always have in the back of his mind the fact he has NOT chosen freely, but was compelled to choose because his site was jeopardised. And he had to decide fast. It’s an obliged path. An “ob torto collo” (with bent neck) decision. Instead, a new site made in CP speaks about someone taking time to evaluate the best solution.

#24

Exactly this should be primary effort - to attract unsatisfied WP users. The majority of the first million sites will be migrations from WP.

From the marketing standpoint, the best way to communicate a comprehensible message - to say what you are not, or against whom you are. Remember the classic “horseless carriage”? This is how our brains process information - the new information should be related to something we know.

WP site owners have a problem - we offer a solution. Don’t be afraid to attack bad code & bad ideas. The whole CP is an attack to a bad idea.

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#25

‘‘I don’t work with clients unless they have been in business for at least five years, have several employees, have at least tried marketing in some capacity before on a serious level and understand basic concepts around business (such as need for a plan, P&L statements, book keeping, and so forth).’’

My point: I really don’t care about their seniority in the business as long as they can pay for a project.

‘‘CP should pursue legitimate WP agencies, businesses using WP to earn tangible profits.’’

My point: The customer really don’t care what is in the background. Your customers will only enter some basic data or blog posts.

‘‘What works for a global corporation cannot and should not be the same path for a startup.’’

My point: a global corporation works mostly with his own employees, not with you.

  1. show me a single website made by you in WP or CP (one link)
  2. did you ever try to use the Wix editor ? show me a single website made by you in Wix.

CP in the actual state is used and will be used mostly (90% at least) exactly by the hobbyist just because they can’t adapt to WP.

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