How to make the forum better for novices?

Ha! Discourse has more controls than a NASA command center… it’s super easy to miss things. I’m also still finding new features all this time later.

That’s what I was going for… the “Latest” view is how I’m used to using forums.

I’m hoping @MrLucky can join in at some stage. I’d be interested to hear his views on the various possible options.

Yes, so at least I wasn’t the only person who found it had gone

Yes it is back now, but the whole thread disappeared for while. So if it wasn’t deleted then it must be some kind of forum bug I presume

I have to say I find this forum interface rather confusing, as well as the fact that bits of discussions seem to often get split off somewhere else. maybe I will get used to it. Or else it’s just I’m used to forums with a more conventional and intuitive interface like xenforo.

I find it annoying that threads just scroll on forever.

Also there is no normal navigation at the top, it’s like a mobile navigation hamburger.

And when you do click on it I am confused by seeing 8 categories and text saying 33 more. But if I click on 33 more, I only see ten categories, and some of the original 8 are not there. (e.g. Marketing &)

And then there are strange categories with titles that meaen nothing to me (Governance, meta…)

Please don’t think I’m moaning, maybe I am missing something very obvious - I would not say change it, if other people like it then that’s fine.

I think this is all really good feedback and maybe on our “Welcome to the Community” post we should address some of this. Would that work? It should be the first thing a new user opens, but maybe I’m wrong.

Thank you for your honest opinion!

Another issue I have is allowing people to edit a thread titile, with the result that it makes other peoples’ post look stupid.

For example my post here was written when the thread title said it was for the layman. Now that the thread title has changed it makes a bit of a nonsense of my post which was based on it supposed to being a tutorial for the layman.

Looking at the edits, I don’t think the thread title ever changed and it still does say in the post:

Understanding of Git in Layman’s Term

At the top right of the post there is a count of the number of edits made on the post. From what I can see there are only 2 edits on the post:

1. The forums downloading a local copy of the images used, and
2. A single minor content edit for grammar

Ah, OK I was wrong then. It does say that. I had thought it was the title but it’s the heading in the post.

I get confused easily…

I’m not familiar with xenforo, but I know what you mean by a more “conventional” layout. I also found the current interface initially confusing and it took a while to get used to it. Can you scroll up and look at the screenshots Wade has posted to see if you think any of those might look more comfortable to the first time visitor.

Yes, and sometimes you go back to a thread and get dropped right at the top, other times you go to the bottom. @wadestriebel - is there a pagination facility to break up long threads?

The thing that always gets me is trying to find my settings. When you click your icon you get the list of notifications around your posts, with tabs for bookmarks and messages. You need to click on your name to go to all your other settings. Why not another tab with a gear icon?

This is all great feedback. Thanks for raising it. It’s certainly not a case of any deficiency on your part. I assume you teach sax so you would know that if a student doesn’t “get” something it’s not their fault… you need to find another way to present the concept.

One of the recurring comments here is that we need to get more people involved in ClassicPress. And if new potential members are coming to the forum and finding it confusing and daunting then that is not a good start. I think it should be as simple and clear (and conventional) as possible. And it needs to be intuitive because…

I have never, ever read one of these posts. It’s like when you get a new power tool… instructions? Nah… I just want to plug it in and try it out.

You’re not alone. In my view Discourse was a bold but risky choice for the forums, because it’s not what people expect to see. When you say ‘forum’, people expect a conventional forum layout like xenForo or vBulletin. I’ve got used to it now, but it took a while.

And I also find the forum team’s habit of splitting topics at the drop of a hat quite confusing - suddenly I don’t know where to look for a reply I remember seeing in a certain thread, and when I get to the new split thread, half the context isn’t there.

@anon95694377 - can you tell me which of the screenshots Wade posted above you think is the least confusing/most conventional?

I tend to use the “Categories + Top Topics” as my home page but that’s because I’ve got used to things now. There doesn’t seem to be a view that is equivalent to a conventional forum home page.

As an example of a more conventional approach, take a quick look at these forums:

https://classicpress.club/support/ , https://www.linux.org/forums/ and https://forums.tomshardware.com/

The default view is basically categories (with each sub category explained) + 1 latest post in each category, but they all have an “Activity” or “New Posts” link in their main navigation which gives you the Top Topics view.

Please understand that I’m not saying Discourse is bad - I’m just illustrating how unofficial UI conventions that evolve over time (e.g. “this is how a forum looks”) have a powerful effect, and departing from conventions puts up an immediate barrier for many people.

Totally agree. I’m actually torn because the “Only Categories” view is probably the most conventional, though it really has very minimal information.

But I find the “Boxes and Featured Topics” to be the clearest and most intuitive (except I’d reorder the boxes). I love the way you instantly can see the nine main categories and at a glance you can tell what new posts there are in each. I would prefer it to show 4 or 5 entries in each category. Most people will only be interested in a small number of categories anyway.

For the record, I’d order them… top row: General Discussion, Support, Announcements - middle row: Plugins; Themes, International - bottom row: the rest.

Also, one other point. When I go to a category, this is what I see in my browser:

The subcategories fill almost the whole screen and I need to scroll down to start seeing the posts. I’m not sure if these could be minimised so they are less “in-your-face”?

Yes, whereas what many people might expect would be this:

• Subforum
• • Post
• • Post
• • Post
• Subforum
• • Post
• • Post

Etc.

You should get dropped off where you left off. If you have “completed” the thread and are returning in the case no new posts have been made that would be the top so you can summarize, and in the case there are you will be brought to the latest post (bottom).

I don’t disagree, Discourse took a “modern” approach bringing the “traditional forums” into the new web. From my point of view Discourse has over delivered.

Checking out some other large discourse forums to see what they do:

• https://discuss.atom.io/
• https://twittercommunity.com/
• https://community.imgur.com/

If by “the drop of a hat” you mean “the minute the topic starts going astray”, I’m in agreement. To clarify, I’m also not a fan of splitting topics, however, there has been a consistent tendency for threads to wander all over the place without it…which leads to those neverending scrolls everybody dislikes.

Not surprisingly, Twitter uses the split view. Given the totally confusing UX on Twitter itself, they don’t seem to care very much about that aspect.

This thread is a great example of something that should be split but I am holding off because they are still semi-related. That being said, now I think there is 5 different avenues of discussion going

1. I can’t seem to see any consensus on layout changes yet - but we will keep the idea open
2. Splitting threads, I know it is disorienting. And I think we all hate it but when threads get off topic realistically there is no other way to do it. I know we can do better with trying to keep context and the mods and I try hard to figure out the bare minimum we need to include. The issue is, especially threads that actively being replied to, it often happens super quickly which makes it really tough.
3. User onboarding, I think including more information in the welcome message is the way to approach this and encouraging all new users to actually complete the included onboarding by @discobot would be beneficial.

I think that hit all the points above - if you want to reply to a specific point please quote and use the “reply as linked thread”