Do we even need to hold open meetings on Slack? Why not have a dedicated subsite on the CP multisite for such things? That would create absolutely no barrier to entry at all, and would also demonstrate some confidence in CP itself.
A dedicated site for real-time chat meetings? I prefer the Slack method.
OK, why? I’ll be honest. The more I use Slack, the less I like it. I have given it a long trial now, and there really are very few things about it that impress me.
More importantly, if it’s easier to access for those new to CP, isn’t that more significant?
Ok, so, it’s more of a personal preference than an actual benefit to the meeting activity. Personally, I’m not a fan of using the wrong tool for a thing, is all. Slack works great for meetings and, if the direct invite link is provided to new people (as I posted elsewhere,) there really isn’t a problem getting into Slack.
I agree about using the right tool for the job. But that just begs the question here, because it assumes that “the job” is just holding a meeting. I think the job here also includes attracting others to CP.
Maybe your link idea is enough. But I still think using a tool with which some people aren’t familiar isn’t the best way of introducing them to ClassicPress.
Thanks for clarifying.
I was just responding to this topic at hand, meetings.
I agree. However, I would argue that introducing new people to ClassicPress and managing community meetings are two distinct activities that may (or may not) have overlap, but, shouldn’t be necessarily conflated.
If you’re inviting the general public to community meetings it’s not about whether you like it or not.
How about a 70-year-old grandmother that blogs that is having problems and needs help? Would she be able to navigate the other side of Slack, I’ve never been on the other side or used it so I can answer.
The thing to remember about the general population is you have to take everything to the lowest common denominator i.e. the 70-year-old grandma that barely can log into her CP site and post something.
To clarify, Slack is usually used as a backchannel – it’s built for team communication, rather than providing effective support. While you can get assistance via Slack, the forums are actually the better place for this. The reason is simple: if you help someone on Slack, the help gets buried in the history and becomes difficult to find later. Only one person benefits from it. If you help someone on the forum, it is searchable and anyone can benefit from it.
the question is
Should we even hold open meetings on Slack?
And my answer still stands.
If you’re inviting the general public to community meetings…
you have to take everything to the lowest common denominator.
I have seen where others have posted about having a bit of trouble using Slack.
Are we all not part of the CP team?
There was an issue with the link you used and a viable solution (direct link) has been offered. I don’t think having people register for Slack is asking too much – people register online for things every day. Just, the link needs to be corrected.
My posting about logging in is in a different thread.
This is getting off track.
Again this thread is about…
Should we even hold open meetings on Slack?
Please stay on point.
Since it wasn’t abundantly clear: yes, I think open meetings should be held on Slack.
Okay, let me flip the question. Where would you want the meetings to be held?
Keeping in mind the following:
- Our biggest user base right now is Slack - so how would we move them? How many users would we lose in the move? Is it worth losing those users in the pursuit of “easier”?
- We already have the bridge in place for people who don’t want to use Slack.
- Who is going to manage this new “easier” channel? I will be honest, I don’t have the time, I am already spread super thin.
If we can decide on a solution or answer to the above, and someone is willing to set it up. I won’t stand in the way of that.
I can agree to some extent slack is a channel more suitable for people actively developing the project and we “should” have a “place for the masses”.
We do have the forums.
But forums lack real time features that we find in slack.
And forums are for support and long term debate shaping.
Irc channels? Adding a dedicated chat room to forums where it is possible to archive the contents?
A separate CP + BuddyPress install?
Being me I would opt for a BuddyPress. I can build a test one if we get to understand what we need from it. Build and manage it I mean. Obviously respecting all the guidelines the community team will decide for its operation.
Only problem I have is I am not able to put it on a decent domain due to a budget shortage at present, but I am sure I can manage to find a solution for that.
Let me know what you think.
EDITED TO ADD:
Obviously if we decide for another option (like an irc channel or adding dedicated chat rooms to forum) I am eager to step in also. A BuddyPress is just my personal approach…
I have complete confidence in ClassicPress for websites.
As far as a real-time discussion platform, we’ve looked at a number of alternatives and none of them come close to the usability of Slack. This is also not something we’d want to host ourselves.
If we don’t want or need real-time discussion, then we already have a place for that: right here on the forums. The only “catch” for that is you need to make a single thread per issue.
I would say no, we shouldn’t be holding open community meetings on Slack. I don’t mean we shouldn’t use Slack, and I’m not suggesting that we look for some alternative on CP itself. I just wouldn’t be extending an open invitation to the community. You can tell them it’s on, sure. If they want to make the effort that’s fine, but don’t advertise it as if it’s some sort of opportunity for the general public to get in and have their say.
Slack is a place for quick-fired chat and it’s not really going to be any sort of a medium for the hypothetical 70-year-old grandma to interact with the community. The forum is the place for that. I don’t see Slack as being a suitable place for an online “open community meeting” for the general public. As @thewolf points out, if you are going to do that then it needs something that can be dropped to the lowest common denominator.
There is a difference between a committee meeting and a community meeting.
I’m all for keeping committee meetings members-only for commenting while others can still attend and read along – same as now. Those meetings have a specific agenda and community input would probably take them into the weeds and overtime.
For community meetings, which may not even necessarily have a structured agenda, I think everyone should be allowed to participate.
For clarity, I think both are best handled with Slack.
That’s a very good distinction. I agree with everything up to the last sentence.
I think community meetings would need something simpler than Slack. But I’ve got no idea what that is.
So have I. But having confidence in something and demonstrating that confidence are quite different things.
Bingo! That is precisely what I am getting at. So when we have an open meeting, which is it?
Sorry, I completely disagree. If we are holding a committee meeting, Slack seems like the least worst option. (I say “least worst” rather than best because I don’t think it copes well with more than four participants if the subject-matter is more than just a casual chat, but I don’t think any other tool makes a better job of it.)
Agreed 100%! If we are holding a community meeting, then the very differentiating factor is the desire to make it open. I don’t think just saying “anyone can participate” makes it genuinely open for the reasons that @thewolf has given. Making it an “open” meeting also means making the means of communication as open as possible.
The thing I’ve noticed is that Slack is not actually very good for real-time discussion when the number of participants gets above four. Slack excels for real-time discussions between or among two or three people, as well as (ironically) for general chit-chat that is not in real-time at all.
I’d be perfectly fine with that too. It doesn’t showcase ClassicPress, but we know it works well. And, of course, @wadestriebel ends up porting Slack discussions over to the forum anyway, which is another indication of Slack’s inadequacies. (And no, the issue there isn’t just the 10k limit; trying to find old comments on Slack is a bit of a nightmare in any event.)
So, I think this becomes the question: “Do we even need real-time discussions for widespread community involvement?” What’s the point?
One of the issues for me is time zones. For the small number in the committee it’s not hard to come up with a mutually agreeable time. But, for that last meeting, it was a choice for me between 3am, 4am and 5am. Real time discussions for a large group of people at a set time (if we are talking about all CP users) is always going to be limiting anyway.
I agree with @james… the forum is a much better place for it.