So if not Gutenberg then...?

This is how a proper CMS should be buildt. Even having opportunity to install Gutenberg editor, if someone misses that. Freedom (in form of plugins) vs. dictatorship.

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:heart_eyes:

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4 posts were split to a new topic: Accesibility and UX in HAX

I think the future is about properly structured content, like https://sanity.io.

The thing that most put me off about Gutenberg (apart from the dictatorial approach), was the use of html comments to delineate the blocks in the DB. This is just crazy, and a nightmare if you wish to consume data from WordPress with another system like Gatsby. Blocks done right, with their own DB tables and all, would be fantastic for WordPress / ClassicPress.

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Absolutely right about the use of HTML comments. Sheer madness!

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5 posts were split to a new topic: Page builders discussion

We have blocks done right in the form of widgets. I hope, CP will expand functionality of widgets in the future.

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I clicked your Codepen link to try HAX, but it warned me that it might not work in my browser. I went ahead anyway, and just saw a white area below the code. I couldn’t see the HTML that it said was there.
So I think you have a ways to go yet. and concerns with browser versions. Not everyone uses the bleeding edge of browsers.

Another thing on the topic of different editors is how difficult it is for the theme to style it to resemble the front end. TinyMCE in core is pretty easy because it uses iframe. Gutenberg is a nightmare because all the UI controls are mixed in with the user content, and the specificity of the CSS is very different from front end to back end.

TinyMCE also has a simple interface to extend the toolbar. Themes can add a filter to the config to add “formats” for users to apply. That’s one PHP function and the theme’s custom classes can be added to any content.

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I mentioned in another post (roadmap idea) my thoughts that everything should be a plugin. Including the editor. The base editor is just a plain text-area where you type (or paste) code. No formatting at all. Then if you want tinyMCE that’s a plugin you add. You want a page builder, you add that. And even that plain text area would itself be a plugin.

This way I can have my clients use Libre-Office or some other clean html desktop client where I’ve given them a template with predefined styles and they can just copy-paste it in. Even this editor here in the forum has more formatting than I would have as the “default”.

Just my $0.02

JS

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I seem to recall Joomla was like this. It came with a few basic editors, but you could also choose “no editor” and you would get the plain text area that you describe, no toolbar. If I was the only one working on the site, I’d often use this option and simply type in the html.

Just to mention, the visual editor can be removed with a one-liner in a site-specific utility plugin or the functions.php file. This removes the Visual and Text tabs above the editor and leaves just a few rudimentary buttons.

add_filter('user_can_richedit', '__return_false');

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I didn’t know about that. Nice!

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That’s new to me too. I’ve only been using WordPress for 10 years.

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Just slightly OT, but not quite.
I appreciate @anon71687268 approach (one line of code to rule them all).
IMHO it’s the easiest option and the less dangerous.

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Yes, filters rule! One of my favorite features of WP/CP.

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This question has been mulling in my head for a few days too.
It doesn’t really seem to have a definitive answer yet.

There are valid competitive considerations why WP decided to go ahead with GB.
It is fine to say that GB is not the answer (for numerous valid reasons), but eventually (around v3) there will need to be some alternative solution.

I am a fan of widgets, but I also realize that they can’t solve all problems.

Something like Elementor can be used to deal with creating columns and such.
Columns and getting text to display correctly inline next to images was a major headache for me when I started using WP (years ago).
But how long will such solutions be maintained if a large number of people are adopting GB?

The other possible solution for me, is that themes will need to become a lot more flexible and creative with widget areas than they currently are.
But this would require buy-in from theme authors.

Blockquote

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Themes are more for unifying the pages of a site, not for individual content on each page.
But, I agree that widgets and shortcodes are the blocks that already exist that work well. I put my endorsement of that into the theme Twenty8teen (Twenty8teen – WordPress theme | WordPress.org) which allows a lot of flexibility in layouts by using widgets for everything. I even made it easy to apply the theme’s classes to the content by using the editor’s Formats button. (Only works on Classic block in GB.) But themes should not be involved with the content since the theme can be switched at any time.

For the actual content area, users that don’t know HTML or CSS have a few options of plugins that supply a modified interface. I doubt it would be that difficult to enhance the existing editor. Several plugin authors have done it already.

Fair comment.
Business users tend to decide on a theme and only do major overhauls once every few years to maintain branding consistency. Re-branding tends to be a major exercise.
However, I acknowledge that this will NOT be the case for a large number of users, who will wish to change their themes often and yes, best practice should accommodate them.

Do you have a demo site for Twenty8teen? I checked out the link, but would be nice to see it in action.

Just to be clear, I don’t think that themes by themselves can solve the problem, just that they can make a significant contribution to improving overall appearance.
Many themes have very limited widget areas (sidebars / footer).

It may be worthwhile to keep an eye on what happens with some of the better page builders though. Not in an alarmist way, of course. Just to monitor when enhancing the editor may become a more urgent priority.

If you don’t have 3rd party cookies blocked, the link contains the WP Previewer :wink: … but I have a demo site that happens to have it installed right now. A big part of the flexibility is only visible in the Customizer. I have used a theme option to show different styles on different pages (they initially all look alike), so click around. It is flexibility like this that drives my opinion that putting specific styles into content is a bad practice that the user should be warned away from.
I think the editor should help the user with HTML, but not so much with CSS; class names at the most.

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A post was split to a new topic: Как мне создать дочернюю тему?