I keep seeing threads where the market is being identified as this or that. ie Ok for a dev but not for a novice user.
If in fact CP is a Business fork then I think it will do better if we create an archetype of the target market and focus on that when making most if not all decisions.
Discussions on how to submit a bug report is a good example. If everything is reduced to the novice level then obviously it’s more difficult to support. Our users should already have a GitHub account as they are devs, or agencies, or freelancers. I haven’t actually read whats on the welcome screen for years and years.
Trying to be everything to everyone especially in the beginning is a huge mistake in my opinion.
Making it invite only like gmail did is the opposite approach …something in the middle?
I don’t think I can agree with this assumption. I have been using WordPress for years, I build sites for people with it, tinker around the edges as far as my abilities allow. Over the years I kept hearing about GitHub and I have made a number of attempts to check it out, but I’ve always given up on it. Two reasons.
It’s so damned complicated and user-unfriendly. I eventually started using the Windows interface, but every time I did something I would still have to rethink the whole process of pushes and pulls and commits and masters.
As a sole-trader it was totally unnecessary. I can keep track of my work perfectly well without the complication of GitHub.
I think defining target markets is a good idea, but I’d suggest thinking in 2 levels - basic and advanced. And to me the break point would be: do they or don’t they use GitHub?
This is an interesting discussion that I look forward to hearing some opinions on it!
I guess it then boils down to:
Who is a “business” user, and what development experience do they have?
A could of “food for thought” questions:
- Do you consider a blogger a business user? What if they make money blogging, does that change anything?
- What about freelancers (writers for example)?
Is a business user someone who owns a business, and has a website? Or maybe they’re an entrepreneur and has a few of them?
Or maybe they’re an agency who offers services to businesses and one of the offerings is website design – but they outsource their custom code work so they’ve never had a need for GitHub, nor do they have an interest in it or a need for it.
Good discussion GTMAN; I’m glad you brought it up.
Yes, it’s a very good topic GTMAN.
Given that it says that CP “serves the business website market” right there on the home page, what does this really mean?
Maybe it would be easier to come at it from the other end… who are the people it wouldn’t serve? Obviously Gutenberg users. What sort of people use and like Gutenberg?
Agree with ozfiddler.
Don’t use gihub either for the same reasons.
I implement WP for clients but I’m not coding whatever. And, btw, none of my clients wants ever having to deal with those crazy blocks or page builders in the editor.
As one said yesterday, “I run away from Wix and such because of that and found WP way easier for publishing. If WP becomes like Wix I’ll be looking for something else.”
I would strongly recommend that any developer learn how to use
git, even for projects where it’s just you. Used well, it is an “infinite undo” button for your code. And it opens up your ability to contribute to large-scale multi-person projects like ClassicPress, which is basically impossible without good version control.
I’ve just joined Git recently; installed Git and TortoiseGit on my Dev box. I’ll use it for source control, but as a sole (hobbyist) developer I’m not going to get exotic.
I will be honest, I didn’t see the value until our team started growing. Then it was a mad dash to get everything set up correctly so everyone had access.
Now, I can’t imagine not using it. Even for side projects where it is just me.
I’m not a developer. I’m a self-taught hack.
This is really the problem with trying to define “business user”… there is an incredibly wide range of people using WP/CP.
What about the self-employed plumber who has knocked together a plumbing site for himself, hosted on Siteground using an Envato theme and a few plugins? Isn’t he a business user?
In my case I do website management and I build and look after sites, around 20 of which are (were!) WP. I only recently started messing around with doing interesting stuff in functions.php, and I wrote my first plugin this week (and that was mostly copy and paste off tutorials). The only core I know about is the one in an apple. Am I a business user?
I’m starting to think that defining a “target market” is a lost cause.
OK - here’s a random thought. I’m actually starting to wonder if this whole “business target market” thing is a mistake.
As I see it, the main reason for the incredible popularity of WP is (1) it was very simple to use and (2) it catered to a very wide variety of users.
Gutenberg has actually worked against this - it is harder to use, and it seems to be targeting a narrower group of users.
Maybe the target market for CP should be aimed as widely as possible, with the emphasis just being on ease-of-use?
To me, being “The business-focused CMS” says more about the security and stability of the CMS versus whether a freelancer, blogger or plumber is a “business user”.
To me a business user is someone who relies on wordpress for their business. That includes developers, but also Joe the Banjomaker that hosts a simple website that he build once with a theme and some plugins. People like this often do not have the time to put many hours into their site and thus require stability and predictability. They are not freestyle people with a lot of time to sink into their website.
I thought originally it was discussed in the context that Business users would have an “IT” person(s) looking after the site and not the Plumber DYI’er. In any case the adage of “know your audience” is what I’m striving for so that decisions can be made more quickly in terms of infrastructure set-up, documentation, support levels, etc.
What are the KT (Knowledge Threshold) assumptions ?
FTP / File Management
Backing Up and Restoring
Staging / Production
I’m hoping this list of assumptions is just an example. It’s far too long, IMO…and, it only describes the requirements of a narrow sector (web tech), not a general business. I think catering only to businesses who have resources enough to have an IT person would be a mistake.
I tend to agree with @Code_Potent here. I don’t think I’m even 100% comfortable with everything on that list.
I could see that list being assumptions about who is using the Alpha’s and Beta’s but I would feel it’s too narrow for V1.
Just possible examples off the top of my head … not meaning to exclude anyone. I think there should be a minimum expectation though.
Going back to your original question… can we first clarify this?
So, is CP a “business” fork? If so, what does it mean?
Just a thought. I’m one of those amateur, web site tinkerer, part time blogger sort of people. I was frustrated and unhappy with the changes in WP, but it was more of a gut feeling than anything else. I found the CP home page (somehow), but left as soon as I saw the words “the business-focused CMS”. It was some time before I found my way back again and asked enough questions to make the change. I don’t know how many others like me are around, but the bloggers who follow me seem to be of a fairly similar level. Leave enough room in the lifeboat for those who want to escape…