View in #committee on Slack
@blueskyphoenixllc: Hi everyone – who is here for the meeting?
@wade: !here the agenda for today can be found here:
@blueskyphoenixllc: Hi Wade
@blueskyphoenixllc: Tagging @scott @fredrik.forsmo @guerreiro.rui @tim.kaye @pieter (although I think either Tim or Pieter said they had a conflict during this time) @mte90net @kontakt
@blueskyphoenixllc: Nice, thanks for dressing up for the meeting Daniele
Okay well looks like we have 6?
@jnylen: We kind of need @scott as the first agenda item is his
@raygulick: I think he explained it already and took questions, can we just vote on it?
@jnylen: I was waiting for specifics on what we can expect out of that
@raygulick: I do think we will need him if we go forward with it.
@blueskyphoenixllc: Do we have any more discussion on the matter?
@raygulick: Thought he came up with answers to that @jnylen
@wade: From @jnylen
>I think in order to make that decision, we need to know more specifically what we can expect to get for that money in principle I think it’s a good idea though
@blueskyphoenixllc: From a marketing standpoint – what they are proposing to do is quite a bit of work for the investment. What I think we lack is some past performance and some example of what we can expect re: reporting
@jnylen: Ok, so they did share something like that
I was hoping for a more specific expectation related to our situation
Do y’all think that’s reasonable?
@blueskyphoenixllc: I don’t think we’re going to be able to get that – this is a new venture; they just don’t have the case studies to share, I suspect
@raygulick: Not sure we can get that without them starting work on our behalf
@slack1596: i’d like to know how we measure if it was a success for us
@guerreiro.rui: I’m here now. Sorry for being late.
@wade: Most stats I suspect will be around # of downloads/active sites
@raygulick: Yes, I think they said that somewhere
@blueskyphoenixllc: The other thing we need to face is the fact that although $690 is a great value for what they’ve proposed to do, the truth is, we don’t have a lot of money to throw around.
@jnylen: This is why I’m wanting to do pretty good diligence here…
@wade: Scott said they would need 2 weeks right?
@raygulick: 2 weeks lead time
@jnylen: I know this isn’t my area of expertise though so I’m not sure if I’m going about it the best way
@wade: So we can always do a quick vote once we get more information
@blueskyphoenixllc: I don’t think we’re going to get more info w/out signing an agreement
@raygulick: If we’re going to do it, we need to do it 2 weeks out from v1
@jnylen: Ok, that needs to be before the next meeting then
Feb 12 or earlier
@wade: Ya, there is no reason this has to be in a scheduled meeting
but I also agree with @blueskyphoenixllc - I don’t know if we will get more info
@blueskyphoenixllc: Here’s the thing – the PR that Tailwind will be doing is not the entire launch campaign. Determining their part in the success of the overall launch is going to be hard to determine.
@raygulick: We only get one shot at maximizing our exposure with v1; can we vote?
@wade: I mean we can vote, but I think at this point it would be turned down just on the fact we can’t clearly define even how success would look
@raygulick: Actually, it will be an ongoing effort, but only one v1
@wade: Mainly because we don’t have all the information
@blueskyphoenixllc: I think we have enough to vote. Determining a successful launch is more complex than it looks.
@raygulick: All marketing entails some level of risk; no guarantees of success
@wade: True, okay we can vote on it - but we have to live with the results, we can’t revote again in a couple of weeks
@blueskyphoenixllc: Remember, they aren’t doing the social media piece of this either. This still falls on the marketing team
@guerreiro.rui: I’m not understanding what they would do.
maybe we should wait for a further explanation from @scott
@blueskyphoenixllc: I’m looking for Scott’s docs again – does anyone have them handy?
@raygulick: handle all the PR lists, press releases, outreach, follow-up etc @guerreiro.rui
[January 22nd, 2019 8:49 AM] scott: Long story short, I’d like to propose we use a service called “Tailwind” by Press Kite for our v1 PR launch (https://presskite.com/). Their service will handle all the PR lists, press releases, outreach, follow-up etc which we don’t have the time to do ourselves.
@jnylen: I still think a vote would be premature. I would like us to set a specific expectation, otherwise we are voting on “trust tailwind with half of our bank balance”
@wade: Already almost at half an hour on this topic - are we voting or moving on?
@blueskyphoenixllc: I think we need to move on
However, I’ll say again – I don’t think more info is forthcoming. I think not voting means we’re taking this into our own hands.
@jnylen: Can we find out if that’s true?
@guerreiro.rui: I think we can do a pool to vote in the forum in a few days from now and move on
maybe we can reach the customers success stories from presskite to see if they can give us some feedback
@wade: I think they have already, and Scott gave us some examples in one of the channels (probably 10k’d by now)
@blueskyphoenixllc: I think Tailwind is a new service outside of Presskite so I don’t think they’re the same.
Anyway, let’s move on
@wade: Anyways, term limits
Non-Voting Discussion: should we revisit whether we still want to have term limits at the end of 2021 when (some of) the founding committee members’ term limits will be up?
@blueskyphoenixllc: Let me explain why the 1 year break –
this is just as much for the committee member’s health as it is the committee itself
@jnylen: Background: https://forums.classicpress.net/t/cp-org-term-limits/707
@blueskyphoenixllc: Three years is a long time to commit to something like this. It’s intended to give the member a break and allow them to reevaluate.
@jnylen: The concern was that a 1-year break would cause us to lose talent. I don’t agree personally, because people can still remain team lead
@wade: I support that
@raygulick: I’m in favor of term limits
@jnylen: However, if we see that in 3 years we are having people drop off and not come back, that might be something to re-evaluate
@guerreiro.rui: I think it can be optional for the person itself, if the persons feels ok an motivated to carry on
@blueskyphoenixllc: I also don’t agree, because the member can still remain as ex-oficio and/or team lead. They can still be involved, but it allows for a bit of a “sabbatical”.
@wade: Sounds like we all agree
@blueskyphoenixllc: We need to have measures in place to protect against burnout, is all. This allows us to have that “out”
@raygulick: @guerreiro.rui sounds like you don’t agree to term limits?
@wade: @guerreiro.rui I agree, but I think we need to have a clause that allows some people an easy out
@jnylen: And to protect against a dictatorship mentality, that is important too. It’s natural for governance systems to tend that way
@guerreiro.rui: yes I agree with term limits
@raygulick: OK thanks
@wade: Good to move onto the vote?
@guerreiro.rui: but stopping 1 year and return again doesn’t seem viable to me. I prefer to have something like 2 years of maximum and after that only after X years you can be again proposed for the committee
@jnylen: @guerreiro.rui we already did this, 3 years on, 1 year off
@wade: @guerreiro.rui you can still be involved, just not on the committee
@raygulick: Is return automatic, or voted by committee?
@blueskyphoenixllc: No, return is voted
@jnylen: We will need to figure that out in more detail towards the end of the first year, not now
@wade: Okay good to vote on when terms start(ed)?
@jnylen: Moving on to vote. All in favor of the first terms for the founding committee starting Jan 1 2019?
@slack1596: my concern isn’t with the limits per se, but the politics that’ll come with it
@raygulick: We’re voting on term limits, not all details, right?
@wade: Ya, when the terms started
@blueskyphoenixllc: We’ve voting on when our terms started, that’s all
@jnylen: We already have term limits, we already approved that
@wade: @jnylen, @slack1596 and @mte90net need to vote
@guerreiro.rui: maybe we will need to do it a bit sooner, just in case someone needs to drop off from the committee but let’s decide that later
@blueskyphoenixllc: The truth is, life happens – it’s possible someone needs to drop off sooner. We can make adjustments
@jnylen: Come on guys…we voted on a big org structure and governance design, but we can’t agree on when our terms started?
@wade: @jnylen are you voting for?
@jnylen: Lol, yes
[February 5th, 2019 8:34 AM] jnylen: Moving on to vote. All in favor of the first terms for the founding committee starting Jan 1 2019?
we are voting here
@wade: That is 7
@jnylen: Alright, so we have a few things to follow up on there later
@blueskyphoenixllc: Okay, the Founding Committee is officially the first Steering Committee. Thanks, everyone.
@wade: Moving on: Description: We approved and merged some text in the ClassicPress readme.html for this.
Voting to Replace “leverage” with “use” in the Word from the Founding Committee.
Here is the link: https://forums.classicpress.net/t/feedback-requested-intro-paragraph-for-readme-file/711/5
@blueskyphoenixllc: I’m fine with changing it, with one point I want to make – ultimately this kind of thing should not rise to the committee level. It should be the marketing committee’s final decision. This is not the committee’s role, to decide every single word on every single thing. – Per our org structure.
So we need to break out of this habit
@jnylen: This in particular is the word from the founding committee
@raygulick: Is ‘leverage’ not a common word in non-American business?
@jnylen: So I think it is something we should approve
@guerreiro.rui: my POV from a non native English speaker is that we need to make easier to understand without changing the meaning of the message. Like I said we can’t assume that everybody has a specific level of english
@jnylen: Otherwise I agree
@raygulick: I get the feeling the objection is personal
@blueskyphoenixllc: I do agree with you @jnylen that this is an exception because it’s from the committee, but I don’t want us to start thinking we need to approve every single thing.
@guerreiro.rui: @raygulick leverage isn’t so commom as use
it’s easier for a non native english to understand “use”
@wade: Okay, so vote to replace “leverage” with “use” in the Word from the Founding Committee.
@raygulick: ‘use’ !== ‘leverage’
leverage specifically carries a meaning about increasing power
Changes the findamental meaning of the sentence, I think
@guerreiro.rui: because in my own language the similar word for “average” isn’t so used widely used like the correspondent of “use”
@jnylen: I don’t think expertise is something you leverage necessarily. You use it to build something better
@slack1596: that’s not what i took from the wording, so i guess the meaning isn’t universally the same
@blueskyphoenixllc: Rui and Invisnet both brought up important points this past week regarding word usage and how they affect those who are not non-native English speakers, or not American English speakers
@wade: I understand the overall meaning to be essentially the same regardless with ‘use’ being easier to understand for non-native english speaking users
@guerreiro.rui: I think that besides the English itself we should use more accessible words because unfortunately not everybody has the same level of education
@slack1596: my reading of it was more akin to “exploit”
@jnylen: I think it depends. If English is your second language then it is reasonable to have to use a dictionary occasionally.
[February 5th, 2019 11:44 AM] wade: Okay, so vote to replace “leverage” with “use” in the Word from the Founding Committee.
@jnylen: Vote is above …
@blueskyphoenixllc: leverage doesn’t mean “exploit”… that said, we do want to avoid misunderstandings. It’s a balancing act. “Use” is not as impactful of a word as “leverage”, which means to increase effectiveness/power in a particular area, sometimes exponentially to make something better.
(and, I voted)
@jnylen: I’ve never seen an exponential lever before.
@blueskyphoenixllc: I’m probably saying it wrong. Think about how pulleys work.
@wade: Everyone needs to vote - regardless of whether it is for or against
@raygulick: or in my case, :man-shrugging: is my vote
@wade: @raygulick is that abstaining?
@raygulick: I think so
@wade: Last person I think is @mte90net
sorry I had another call in the meantime -.-’
@wade: 6 with an abstain would give us 50% right?
@wade: Okay, so that is approved - moving on to non-voting discussions
@blueskyphoenixllc: Is there anything else? I have two quick notes –
oh wait, sorry
@wade: Ya, there was job board, theme, archiver, and any team updates - but those were just status updates
@blueskyphoenixllc: And… go!
@wade: Job Board - @guerreiro.rui and I were looking at open source alternatives to implement rather than building ourselves
So still working on it - we should hopefully have something soon
Theme - my lack of time is slowing things down
@jnylen: Job board, can we use a subforum for this?
Simplest thing that could possibly work
@wade: Archiver - @jnylen has migrated rocketchat to internally only - we are looking at options to make it publicly available
@jnylen: Theme, personally I’d like to see us set up a copy of the live site under the new theme, and that way we can know for sure there are no issues before we switch over
@wade: and @jnylen ya that probably makes the most sense for now
and that was all the quick status updates I had - unless anyone wants to discuss any points
@jnylen: Right, the only other thing I’d say about the archiver is we have all the data we’ve shared here in Slack since a while ago
Even if they won’t show it to us, I refuse to accept their 10k limit
@blueskyphoenixllc over to you?
@blueskyphoenixllc: okay thanks - I’ve got to run so quick notes
We are ramping up marketing, so would love to have blog posts from each of you. I’m happy to help edit but we need content.
Also, as you see posts on social media, please like & share
Finally – I’m going to PM each of you because we’d like to start doing a “Community Spotlight” series. It’ll be an interview style format, everyone will answer some Q’s and share a photo, to run periodically
@wade: Sounds good, thank you @blueskyphoenixllc - I know I look forward to seeing the marketing activity pick up
@blueskyphoenixllc: Ray is helping me with this so ping either of us with questions. We really want to get some good momentum headed into the launch – but we need content.
Thanks everyone! That’s all I had.
@jnylen: We should have the ability to link blog posts to a forum thread for comments this week
Like, this actual week, I tested that out last night
@raygulick: If you have post ideas: https://forums.classicpress.net/t/blog-post-topics/708/8
Or if you want to pick up a topic from there to post!
@wade: I think that is all - thank you everyone