During the formative months of ClassicPress, I argued in favor of targeting developers as CP’s primary users, as I’ve never thought self-hosting is viable for the lion’s share of bloggers, who have several sign-up-and-start-publishing options. Also, I thought drawing developers to the project was critically important in moving the project forward. I lost out to the lets-be-all-things-to-all-people argument, and I still believe that’s held CP back.
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Is there a list of these people somewhere? Hosting has bit me twice. Once I lost an entire year’s worth of content - the one year I published almost every day.
That tech ghosted me and I never did get a backup. I tried to manually restore that content using archive.org which adds junk to every link. It was a nightmare.
Then I had a great tech who never lost anything. But he had to go run a friend’s business when the friend had health issues.
I chose someone with vast WP experience and told him how critical backups were to me given that I lost probably 340+ posts once.
He managed to not have a single good backup for THREE YEARS. So I lost three years of my new content + a ton of updating of existing content. (Which content? I don’t know how to figure that out to restore it if I wanted to - once I recovered emotionally from the loss.)
So now my tech guy is MIA since November. I just tried emailing some additional email addresses I found in my Cpanel. Maybe he’ll respond or maybe he died. I don’t know.
He had two family emergencies and then a heart attack after he took over the site and never finished getting it completely installed.
So I need reliable hosting. A one-person solution is riskier today because so many people are becoming disabled, having mental challenges, or dropping dead.
But the larger hosting companies are less likely to know anything about ClassicPress. Any recommendations?
@growmap What is it you’re actually looking for? I can provide you with hosting, but can’t guarantee I won’t drop dead the next day.
Once your site is set up, you can download your own backups whenever you want. I do it after every new post.
It is not the responsibility of your hosting company to provide you with backups - it’s your responsibility.
You can then use those backups to migrate to another host if it becomes necessary.
Having said that, you will get personalized support from me for ClassicPress, and any associated issues, something a hosting company won’t do.
For anything I can’t fix, I will contact my hosting provider for a solution or seek advice on this forum.
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@growmap, I can also provide hosting, though my focus with hosting is more to help new webmasters get a site going and that sort of thing, verses me being a permanent solution, I then help them move it to a hosting service or their own equipment, depending on the situation.
I can also manage a site, but the best bit of advice given by @Aussie was that you need to get to a point where you are safely storing your own reliable backups - then any tech or service should be able to restore your site if something unexpected happens.
The ClassicPress community in general can help you through many problems, but once you have lost data, it is too late. As you have learned, relying on someone else to keep your data safe might not work out for many reasons.
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I think it is more complex than that. It is important to have developers for CP, but in more generic terms, being able to attract developers who have a desire to market a product requires a user base large enough for those developers to consider CP worth the time.
That does put us at a juncture, where a small team of devoted developers need to consider attracting users as part of the equation that attracts developers. That is my 2 cents at least.
Chicken/Egg, but as long as there isn’t a reasonably robust collection of plugins and themes, ClassicPress will struggle to gain users.
Yes and no.
I converted all my sites from WP to CP, and while I used the ‘classic’ plugins since blocks were introduced, so was not relying on plugins that required blocks, I also ended up being able to work out any issues and nearly every plugin still works. Call it a crutch or whatever, but in essence, there are countless themes and plugins for CP, so we are at a point where convincing WP developers to take the time to make sure their product works with CP does involve having enough users to market those products to.
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Me too.
But we’re not talking about developers, we’re talking about regular users. Non-tech-savvy ones.
Also, I think that if agencies or developers like you and me start migrating hundreds and thousands of sites, something WILL definitely happen. Plugin developers will be more open to getting their plugins CP compatible, as it’s a new market for them.
So it’s on developers to get the ball rolling.
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That puts it in a different light for me.
To some extent when I was referring to a ‘developer’, I meant someone who produces software of some type, not really the person who might decide what CMS to use. Obviously there is probably a lot of overlap in that, and I do agree that if more and more sites convert, that will certainly help.
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Developers of plugins of a certain popularity (who are the ones who then drive the rest) will start to developing for CP, when CP becomes enough used. This is what the developer of the firewall that I use told me and that returns false positives on changes to core files, because the comparison is made with WP files.
So the risk is that a bad loop is created: developers of popular plugins don’t develop for CP because CP is little used, and users don’t use CP because the popular plugins they want on their installations can’t be installed on CP.
It would take some serious plugin developers to decide to make their plugins or themes compatible with CP, so that the popularity of the plugin attracts new CP users, and pushes other developers to do the same.
Equally, we would need some very popular bloggers who would write a good review of CP.
to stop this loop of dev won’t develop/users won’t come…
developers do what users ask for, true. and they also have to risk the decision of supporting a relatively small market that is right now starting to gain traction, clear as day.
BUT
there are MANY people in this community that are using CP themeselves and develop their custom solutions, they are giving a jump start to the ecosystem that way, and they are available to help on the forum (and if the occasion arises they can make some money developing custom solutions). This means that CP does have devs developing specifically for it already. This means the number of users is also increasing because these people lower the “there is not the plugin I need” barrier.
the growth might seem small as of now, but there is growth.
at a certain point the momentum is going to be reached.
You can’t expect that WP developers with big brands risk making their plugin compatible with both CP and WP, it’s tons of hours to be spent maintaining their software, it could mean an increase in prices and a decrease in their sales.
A new generation of developer will come forth, there will be CP devs and WP devs and a few who will develop for both in the future.
we just need to do the following:
- market CP wherever we can (social media, our own blog, word of mouth… do not refrain from mentioning CP)
- encourage every person who is developing for CP, help lower the entry barrier for people (like @Simone does already by offering support in implementing the CPCS and release actions on GitHub for example)
- use CP specific plugins wherever possible!!! if there is a CP plugin for the feature do not use a WP one only because it has a big name attached to it, use the CP one and if you need something specific from the plugin that it does not have yet ask the dev to implement it for you.
- If you have a need that is not met yet come to the forum and ask for some dev to build it instead of going through hell to make a WP plugin work
If users and devs cooperate on this our ecosystem is going to grow sustainably. We might never reach WP numbers (dethroning WP is a matter of wasting tons of money in marketing like the did since their start) but I think we are on the right track to conquer a considerable slice of market, slowly and surely.
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It is hard to disagree with that statement, especially today. Trying to compete with those services would also be difficult at best.
I might be old school in that respect, which may have had a lot to do with my path to self hosting. Long ago (20+ years), when I first started with web sites, it was pretty much static html files on a shared server. Then I added some perl, but eventually php and soon after I tried WordPress (among other applications). This is where I probably differ from most bloggers or even those who enjoy it more as a hobby and would not be called a blogger per say.
The first problem was the more affordable shared servers I used did not run WordPress too well, and when I tried to code several versions of my own systems, the second problem was limited server access (no shell access etc).
The cost at that time for any sort of a dedicated server with better access was more than I was willing to spend for something that would have to be considered a hobby, so I learned to self host.
First with a spare machine using XAMPP, but over time we added more and more - now it is a 5 machine cluster, and really since we enjoy the hobby, the ‘cost’ is mainly domain names.
Since we constantly upgrade our personal machines, we end up with the hardware to make strong servers capable of more than we ever ask of them for not too much more than we would be spending anyway.
That and an unlimited bandwidth Fiber connection which we also need anyway to stream and for the work VPN put us in a great spot, but I agree it is not for everyone.
On the flipside though, with some of the control panel type software out there, if you can manage to get one running, they take care of a lot of the technical aspects of self hosting, so it does not require someone who is a highly technical person - my opinion is that if you can install and set up software, you can self host.
Everybody could self-host. On that I can agree. The majority rely on hosting companies and managed platforms for good reasons:
- they cost of managing the infrastructure on their own in terms of time, learning curve and money is hindering their ability to do their job (a plumber doesn’t want to “spend some of their working time to do something that doesn’t directly earns them money”
- they opt to outsource the hosting
- they don’t feel tech savvy and they don’t even want to try to learn because they have other interests in life (not everyone that owns a website does because they genuinely like taking care of It. Some do because they “have to” to earn money. The website is just a tool, if it brings too much complexity it’s a hindrance).
That is why hosting companies and platforms with managed spaces exist.
@raygulick is right in saying that self-hosting can’t really compete with them.
That is why many people are asking for hosting companies tailored on CP and companies offering CP specific support. And that is a good thing. There is the demand, and when this happens an offer usually starts to come up.
If by self-hosting you mean self-server, I’ll tell you my experience. I have never had self-hosting (self-server). And the reasons are more or less those highlighted by Elisabetta.
I don’t deny that I would have liked to have one, but I don’t have the time or desire to learn how to manage it, due to family and work commitments, as well as the costs. Self-server could be good for those who want to transform their website into a business center, but not even, because many websites that generate profits and thousands of daily accesses do not have their own server, but rely on a third-party hosting service .
I also have to say that as much as I’ve always liked the idea, I’ve never found it essential to what I do with my blog. Moreover, I am quite lucky with my hosting service. It’s from a friend who leaves me a lot of autonomy, and if there is any problem at server level, I just need a message on Whatsapp to get it resolved.
In general, though, self-server starts to make sense when your website generates enough traffic that it needs a dedicated server. Before then, it makes no sense, unless the aspiration is not only to simply run a self-hosted blog, but also to have complete mastery of the server, which isn’t necessary to run a blog or website anyway. website, without prejudice to an adequate hosting service.
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Self hosting or running your own servers can be a hobby (or job) in itself, it is something I have done for a long time and enjoy, so as mentioned above, for me, the costs are almost nothing.
In my case I call it a hobby (I could say business, but when a ‘business’ has more costs than profit over the long term, it would be a hobby). It has never been my main source of income.
Running a ClassicPress.com type service either self hosted or on a 3rd party service does sound like something that could have merit, but implementing, especially in a profitable way seems like it may not be so simple. I have kicked ideas around in my head, but cannot see it being a realistic project for me.
I would also mention that in most cases, self hosting is NOT right for sites with a lot of traffic, at least not without some type of situation in place for a 3rd party service to take over once traffic reaches a certain level.
I might also dare to say that the majority of ‘bloggers’, not company or business related sites, are low traffic and are not a reliable or significant source of income anyway. I know my sites (which I would classify as ‘hobby sites’ since I am not a ‘blogger’) are not expected to replace my day job.
I could say that over the years I have had a few ‘big offers’ if you want to call them that - opportunities that could have represented significant income, but were either short term or reverted to maintenance / management after an initial project.
The problem is that any of those situations would have meant I could not really continue on at my ‘real’ job, which was not a realistic option, so I made the decision at several points to retain my reliable job and just ‘play internet’.
@EliteStarServices at least in Italy, small/medium companies have small sites with local traffic (so low traffic) and for the majority of them a common hosting or a basic managed VPN is enough.
Blogging nowadays is not a hobby. It’s a job. You select a niche, create content around it and monetize the platform (for this to work is vital you own your content, this means having a website is mandatory). If done the right way it can be very profitable (say six figures per year).
However, bloggers and plumbers alike, want to spend their working hours on their core business (creating content to monetize or doing plumbing) and not on maintaining a server and the website itself for the reasons I already enunciated above. That means they rely heavily on developers and hosting platforms.
About a WP.com like CP service: I did a very detailed research on this, technically it’s very possible to implement it (the same way as Automattic, Banzai Media, Vivaldi Browser Webites and the like do, it’s a multisite with some customization for security and stability).
The only reason this is not viable as of now is for the HUGE investment in terms of marketing that one would have to undertake to make the public aware of CP first and the WP-like platform secondarily.
It is going to be viable when CP reaches its brand awareness momentum and starts to really grow steadily because at that point the marketing needed would be focused only on the platform brand awareness.
That is why CP needs to grow, because an offer in term of services (hosting companies geared towards CP, a WP.com-like platform, CP development and design services…) needs the public to be aware of it so that service providers only have to promote themselves as CP service providers.
Unluckily as of now we do not have a coordinated marketing effort allowing to increase CP brand awareness, but we are going to get to the point where all these things become profitable and viable anyway.
Anytime ClassicPress is promoted it should help move things closer to a tipping point, and in some ways, that is were we need a better push somehow.
I am not really trying to convert anyone either, though it terms of owning your content…
Getting a sign and and post service to use/offer CP would be a noticeable step forward I think.
Everything being discussed here is interesting, getting from here to that elusive tipping point is also something that is more gray than black and white, but won’t happen without our help and most of us have ideas in our heads or at least partially implemented to keep the momentum going, that is the key…
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exactly that. the ideas are there. day by day they are becoming more viable because of brand awareness around the existence of CP. but we need to take the leap of faith in certain cases to help promote our services and CP.
And yes, marketing is a grey zone (I am going to start on July 16th a branding and storytelling short course, it might help 
).