View in #i18n on Slack
@ElisabettaC77: Meeting in 5 minutes. :skin-tone-2:
@ElisabettaC77: Hi @James_Nylen
@ElisabettaC77: Thanks for your time
So, I think we also need @Wade_Striebel for some of the things we will discuss fall under community and @invisnet (I have couple of questions security wise for translation/localization)
@Wade_Striebel: I am here
@ElisabettaC77: Thanks for joining
@James_Nylen: it depends on what it is, but generally the security questions are best handled in private
@ElisabettaC77: Oh. Ok. I will pm him later with my questions
So first item is to acknowledge “where we stand”.
In 2019 Daniele was working to prepare an infrastructure for localization (glotpress) on our servers. It was not clear how this was handled or when it was expected
@James_Nylen: yes, it was done, and working for a while
so we do have some initial translations of CP into about 10 languages
at that point translate.classicpress.net was running as part of a multisite network, the same one that was running docs.classicpress.net there when one of the user accounts got its password guessed
so we had to take it down, and we haven’t had time to get it back online yet as a single site
Daniele was working on some changes to allow designating people as “reviewers” for an individual language, those are here: https://github.com/ClassicPress/ClassicPress-Network/pull/31
@ElisabettaC77: Wait. You said multisite. Was that needed for the docs site (to manage them along) or because the glotpress needed it?
@James_Nylen: it was because we just had all of our sites together as a multisite at that time
much harder to manage and secure, so we’re not doing that anymore
@ElisabettaC77: See in the other channel - I really am thinking if there is another safe way we can get rid of the reviewers concept as seen in wp
@invisnet: @invisnet has joined the channel
@James_Nylen: I think having people review translations for quality and coherence (individual translations make sense together as a whole) is a good thing
but I don’t really know much about how that works in glotpress
@ElisabettaC77: Ok. So, what I see in wp is some people have translated millions of strings, and they remain unchecked. This is not respectful to volunteers, harms the project and slows everything down.
@norske: Reviewers concept is powerful if it’s used properly. The issue is the procedure of getting this status
@ElisabettaC77: What I was thinking is, what about having an official translation team handling that without external contribution?
@James_Nylen: I think external contribution is a good thing
translations are a good way for the community to get involved
@ElisabettaC77: Bear with me. I am just trying to understand possibilities.
@norske you mentioned process to get reviewer status. This is a good point. Any suggestion in this regard?
@norske: It won’t be a problem until we support plugins and themes. In fact our reviewers are equal to LM (local managers)
@ElisabettaC77: I think this is obvious. We do have to use the platform in a way it includes themes/plugins. So as to have a minimum standard within ecosystem
@norske: Then we can’t limit contributions to the team, external help is required since this field is too large. And we still need reviewers for separate projects since they are not a part of the project
@James_Nylen: we know we want to do plugins and themes one day, but let’s focus on core and get that working well first
I think translations that are not from “recognized” users need to be approved somehow? we can take a closer look at that
@ElisabettaC77: Sure. If that works plugin and themes can work too.
But we have to think short and midterm so for now let’s focus on core.
@norske: Anyway, as farvas I know, reviwers are the part of Glotpress technical structure, so I think we should take it as a fact
@ElisabettaC77: I think we should have 2 roles. Trusted and volunteers. Trusted are reviewers and trusted translators. Volunteers all the others who need their strings accepted.
@James_Nylen: @ElisabettaC77 it might be worth it to reach out to Daniele privately in Italian, he’s said he’s not involved anymore but he knew a lot about how GlotPress works
@norske: The default structure is based on locales, so all roles are within separate locale
@ElisabettaC77: Maybe we can have a team structure allowing to review strings more frequently or allowing to gain access to trusted in a more streamlined way (I mean, not an easy access for reviewers need to meet certain requirements, but allowing more people to ask to be evaluated for the role)
@invisnet: just a simple factual question: how many people have we got in the community as a whole who could contribute to i18n?
@James_Nylen: around 5
(excluding people who’ve offered to translate specific dialects of English)
see https://forums.classicpress.net/t/call-for-volunteers-to-translate-classicpress/1894 and previous threads
@ElisabettaC77: And now we touch the community part. We need to engage people
@invisnet: ok, so while i understand and agree with the general idea of setting things up for the future, perhaps for now we should focus more on what we’ve actually got?
@ElisabettaC77: Even for what we got, 5 people. 10 locales.
I can do it, maybe fr but not mother tongue and en USA not mother tongue.
@norske: In fact we have locale managers, this is pretty ok for GlotPress native roles logic
@James_Nylen: I can help with ES
@norske: Locales with no managers are under global manager which is the team lead
@ElisabettaC77: Ok. And if the team lead doesn’t speak that he needs to learn :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:. Jokes aside.
My point now is actionable steps
How much time is needed to set glotpress on?
@norske: Global manager doesn"t need to translate unknown languages, the main goal is to provide wordpress locale and to find people willing to manage it
@ElisabettaC77: Was jokinggggg
@norske: Oh, sorry
@ElisabettaC77: What I think is, while the infrastructure is readied I can manage a call for translators.
For the locales without reviewer
@invisnet: i think that we should concentrate on quality over quantity, so if we don’t have someone native to xx_XX then for now we should leave it (or follow wp as far as it makes sense)
@ElisabettaC77: On the forums, so that people can share links to social media
@James_Nylen: we also need to condense pt_PT and pt_BR into one… we don’t have an active portuguese speaker at the moment, much less enough people to manage two variants
@ElisabettaC77: I don’t know if I like the follow WP, but makes sense. But… GB.
(I mean, their strings contain Gutenberg stuff)
@James_Nylen: we’ll probably be better off importing translations from the WP 4.9.x branch
> How much time is needed to set glotpress on?
this is part of the way-too-long list of infrastructure tasks at the moment… if someone can help set up a working site on a local environment then get in touch and I will get you the needed pieces
@invisnet: erm… i’ve done a pt_XX site before where people couldn’t decide which they really wanted - it all got a bit political and there was some Portuguese exchanged between the 2 translators - i’m not sure lumping both together is the smartest thing we can do
@James_Nylen: same situation exists for many languages
quality over quantity etc.
@ElisabettaC77: About setting up a working glotpress, I think I can check if I am able to do that before saying I will.
@invisnet: yes, i’m sure it does, so i’d just go with pt_PT and drop pt_BR if we’ve noone native to do it
@norske: I’ll play with GlotPress locally next month
@ElisabettaC77: If pt_PT is the most used, the others have the option to get involved to include theirs.
@norske: The main question for me is a process of creating accounts in GlotPress. What are the current ideas for that?
@ElisabettaC77: Ok so. I have time to check with Daniele if he is willing to give me a fast course about glotpress, and preparing a call for reviewers and volunteers that way. Thanks @norske
@invisnet: if we have 5 people then we have 5 primary locales
whatever they are is whatever they are
@James_Nylen: we already have about 10 active locales
they already have decent translation coverage
@ElisabettaC77: I would say that starting with 10 is ok. Then we should keep “open doors” to whoever wants to contribute a new locale.
Also, is there a way to give credits to volunteers and reviewers?
@James_Nylen: we’ve had offers for help with Hungarian and Norwegian in the past, if I remember correctly
@ElisabettaC77: A nice hall of fame for them, I mean
I think yes…
@invisnet: @norske the fewer accounts we can have on glotpress the better - if we can come up with a way for reviewers to review things without needing an actual login that’d be perfect
@James_Nylen: then we don’t know who they are though
@invisnet: i don’t think it’s realistic to aim for 100% coverage at this point
do we care who they are?
if they’re reviewing they can’t “do” anything nasty
@James_Nylen: anonymous anything is a whole other set of issues…
@ElisabettaC77: I think I care. They have to be trusted
@invisnet: i’m only talking about reviewers, not the primary translation
@norske: If I remember it right, reviewer role is granted by locale manager which connects a user with a project, so it can’t be anonymous
@ElisabettaC77: How can we detect if someone is trusted if he is not accountable?
@invisnet: does it matter who it is if all they can say is “that’s the slang for qwerty, you should use asdf”?
@James_Nylen: why would we trust an anonymous user to do that?
@invisnet: erm… because we’re not trusting them?
@norske: But, actually I feel that we should check GlotPress first, because our decisions strongly deopend on its technical possibilities
@ElisabettaC77: There is one thing called standard. We need reviewers to not only check translations but also enforcing the standard glossary and agreeing on it across locales.
Reviewers are the ones who discuss and decide what is the best term in every language for every item and then enforce this on volunteers, this is great responsibility
@norske: Reviewing is related with some procedures: checking for consistency using wp and microsoft tools etc, so it’s a bit more than just about language speaking
@ElisabettaC77: That we have 10 locales or just 3, this responsibility is present and we need to know we trust the person to decide wisely
So, this end of Jan I have to learn glotpress, make an open call for volunteers and eventually reviewers and next month @norske will play around with glotpress.
This are actionable steps.
@James_Nylen: I already did the call for volunteers at least
@ElisabettaC77: Yes, but you know Twitter and friends? Things have to be reshared often when important or they get lost/unseen in the mare magnum of noise
@James_Nylen: so let’s do that when we have a system for people to use
@ElisabettaC77: Since some of my friends may be interested… Or may be willing at least to spread the world…
@James_Nylen: IMO at least
“we have this thing you can play with now… have a look”
@ElisabettaC77: That is ok, but since I plan ahead I think I am going to schedule the thing. For some social I use automation (it helps not to cramm all in the same days :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:)
@norske: @invisnet, are you planning some kind of single auth in all CP infrastructure projects in future?
@ElisabettaC77: When we are ready I want to direct people on forums, to get involved. Is this ok?
I just meant right now there’s not much to get involved with, other than indicating interest, which people have already done (more than once)
@ElisabettaC77: I plan on converting people to cp by asking if they would like to translate… Also. I think translation is a good entry point and by volunteering they feel important. We then have our trusted reviewers who are going to accept only the relevant and correct strings.
@James_Nylen: > translation is a good entry point and by volunteering they feel important
@ElisabettaC77: (that is why I need to plan how to word it. I need to convince people that contributing is not scary, and they are welcome)
@James_Nylen: a tutorial with screenshots is a good option for that I think
also serves as documentation at the same time…
@ElisabettaC77: And that is why I need to learn glotpress like I have to explain to my granny :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:
So, team structure I think should follow glotpress structure, having two structures overlapping I think is no good
If everybody agrees on that
@James_Nylen: makes sense
@ElisabettaC77: Also is bonus points facing the public. Convoluted and complex structures tend to keep contributors far away
@James_Nylen: so from my perspective as the main infrastructure person, which one should I focus on first: glotpress or the docs site?
@ElisabettaC77: I think glotpress. Docs are for when glotpress core is up… IMHO
@James_Nylen: docs for other things also, but yeah, I think I agree
since we have people actively wanting to help out with translations
@ElisabettaC77: Also because, you do not want people complaining for outdated core translations
Businesses are picky
@James_Nylen: well, no one has complained about that so far
@norske: WP uses glotpress to manage infrastructural things, like readmes (plugin pages) and docs too
@ElisabettaC77: @norske is very right
And the third is for docs that are a huge task we need a bit more people
That comes when we at least offer core to engage them
@James_Nylen: yeah, let’s not even think about putting docs or readmes in glotpress for now, to be honest that sounds like a nightmare
@ElisabettaC77: For now just core
We do not need to burn steps
We will decide what to do for the rest, one actionable step at the time
@invisnet: returns - had to take a support call
@ElisabettaC77: For now we have covered all the agenda, I am going to recap all this in forums for everybody to see and eventually chime in.
@norske: Yes, I just mean that I can’t make any thoughtful decision untill I see GlotPress serverside environment
@ElisabettaC77: @invisnet no problem
I can understand that @norske
So one more thing, I plan on having another meeting around the end of next month. Is this ok?
@James_Nylen: sounds good
@norske: Yes, it is
@James_Nylen: I’ll try to have something for us to play with by then
Thank you all for the support and your time
@James_Nylen: thank you!
@ElisabettaC77: There was a way to paste all a slack convo in forums… :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:
/forum post (number-of-messages)
@ElisabettaC77: I was just googling. Thanks!
@invisnet: @norske sso would be good, but given glotpress i don’t think there’s any point at this stage
in future we can do something with a bastion host etc, but for now i think keeping it simple is the best approach
/forum post (500)
@James_Nylen: type, don’t paste, and remove the () and ``
@ElisabettaC77: Oh. Ok
Now I understand. Hate not remembering the old irc times