Is there anything you would REMOVE at all from ClassicPress?

I have to correct myself about “no one knows what v2 should look like”:

To summarise:
v1 will not (and can not) break backwards compatibility. Both the much asked votes and the past reality show that. I think we all agree or at least accept that.
v2 has kind of a plan. Which one of is being worked on by our core dev (PHP version). I think given our resources, that plan is already ambitious.

Now, in that post I also explain why v2 is actually unreasonable:

we are not able to maintain more than one version at a time.


Let me be more straight: we are not able to really properly “maintain” a single release nor test our plugins prior to the releases. As others have mentioned “the recent 1.4.0 debacle” kind of shows that errors happen, and when they happen, we barely have enough hands on desk to fix them. Not to speak that with a even small base of invested testers, and plugin/theme devs preparing for releases by testing RCs, all those issues would have been avoided.

So, my opinion stands that
A) it does not matter how many voices will say “do these rather major changes”. It will not get done and if, then it will be a debacle. For so many reasons as there are Lins of code in CP.
B) at the same time, you are free to do whatever you want. Push a PR with the suggested ideas. Let it review and see what core dev’s will feedback to it. James has created a “CP Next” Git repo a good while ago for this exact purpose. Not a single PR has been pushed to it:

The work, even if it does not get immediately merged, will not be lost. It will be there, and if then it gets to the point of using it, it will be used!


To summarise our path so far, we have started (but never put to code) Relational Database in CP.
We have started (but never finished) jQuery Updates.
I start with those 2 because that is where I was directly involved.
The same is valid for Translations, Plugin and Theme Dir, TinyMCE, ClassicCommerce (and a re-refork thereof), ClassicSeo. Many of these are actual real vital parts of most sites.

We do have a pretty much finalised documentation site, that however also stalled, because all contributions stopped, and I can’t write all documentation on my own.

We did manage to get some great updates into the last release, inclusive new features.

So I honestly do not understand why now actually start another couple major projects, before we do not finish the vital parts.
The vital parts are at least ClassicPress security, ClassicCommerce maintenance and security, and probably Plugins reviews (over 20 pending devs and 15 plugins waiting since long time, some might be rejected, i do not know, what I know is that some have been complaining about their stuff not being reviewed)

Thus, IMO before we think - as a community and in terms of “voted/planned action” - about removing things that some folks might actually use (just like last debacle update, things we removed/changed had been and are still used) and then also write up new plugins to replace what we removed, we would have to invest that time into the vital parts.
It is the same type of work. Lots of research, coding, writing things up, yada yada - nothing different than moving XMLRPC to a plugin, deep down. And it actually bears fruits in the sense of that it will pull out a bit of that knife we have in our side.

I really respect and appreciate the enthusiasm brought every couple months by new or old users. Yet, I do have to ask, why focusing that enthusiasm towards long discussions that we probably deep down know will not lead anywhere?
Why not invest that time in the things that actually need or can to be done and that we love to do? If we can code, if we can strip a “bloated” CMS, we can also maintain a plugin or review a plugin or translate a string or write up a doc.

But I do not see involvement in that. And I don’t think this is because “intimidation” happens.

Sorry to say that, it is just what I observe, in most cases, not all, of course.

That said, if you want to work on removal of lets say XMLRPC or wp_links or anything else, just do it. Really, no one will stop you and it might actually even be used (sooner or later).
If you however want to do things that have a more immediate effect, the projects above are in dire need of this enthusiasm and volunteerism.

I hope this does not come down wrongly. I am agreeing that staying put is frustrating, yet it’s kind of what it is at the moment - and that’s why, if I don’t want to stay put, I will invest that time into my own projects - or try to contribute in the vital parts we lack.
Documentation, now a new testing infrastructure of “user” testing, and a couple minor features is where I saw I can actually contribute relatively effectively without entangling myself into a huge project of which I see no immediate application. That time (of such bigger project without clear end) I see better invested in my own projects.

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It’s not offensive, it’s patronizing which usually implies “your opinion doesn’t matter” even if you didn’t mean it that way. Unfortunately, it tends to happen here in the forums. Sometimes to first time posters, and they end up being one-time posters.

The way certain people choose to word their replies, people who don’t know them, can perceive the tone as rude and patronizing. But that’s a different discussion.

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First, some context: I use CP on all the sites I own, and I have done since the very first version was released. On some of the sites, I run a small business, and (with a partner) I’m planning another startup.

I appreciate what @anon66243189 has said, and I agree with many of his points. But I strongly disagree about one of them. To my mind, a new major version of CP (i.e. one that breaks stuff) is actually the very thing that will keep CP alive if it’s done the right way.

“The right way” to me means making CP modular. That’s actually the best way to address security (because no code need be included if it won’t be used). It will also make code maintenance much easier (because individuals can more easily specialize in what interests them). It will also encourage more devs to get involved (because the code should become much easier to read and understand). And it will enable more plugins to be written, because we can then focus on adding the hooks necessary rather than trying to stuff more code directly into core.

I don’t see that focusing on this will necessarily cause a drop in activity on v1, because (a) I think the development of the two versions will attract different people and (b) v2 provides the positive message of “Yes, we can!” rather than the mantra of “No, we can’t, because it might break things” of v1.

So I’m all for getting on with participating in any initiative for a v2. As @anon66243189 said, no votes required! The best way to get it accepted will be to create a v2 that works. And, as for its incompatibility with v1, of course it won’t be: that’s the point! But, if and when we get to the point of releasing v2, then we’ll need to think about how to enable sites to migrate from v1 to v2.

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I apologize for any potential offense I may have caused. Intentions are clear I hope. Sometimes warm words have worse intentions than cold words, and sometimes cold words are said with pure love.

I didn’t do anything yet because I feel it’s all barriers. I’m constantly asking for permission here. So yeah I better jump into my own boat and sail over there.

I just hate the fact that people keep saying “something has to be done to fix compatibility problems” but it’s clearly impossible to be WordPress and not WordPress at the same time. We’re getting lost in semantics… for nothing!

I started a repo here, I will follow my proposed roadmap on it. I made mistakes last time I tried, the mistake of trying to make everything at once. This time I’ll approach it step by step with no rush.

In the end what matters in this case is public code that can be reused. I just don’t want to push code into a repository that is forked from something I don’t resonate with and which will be constantly drawing me back. That’s why I created the repository on my own account, but I won’t rebrand anything because:

  • It makes no sense, this is not about branding but about making something happen. It probably took tons of efforts to make the ClassicPress organization a reality, and it wouldn’t make sense to try to start such a crazy effort on my side.
  • Whenever the community feels like (and If I manage to do something that isn’t pure useless shit), the whole thing can be moved to the official CP GitHub and it can be called CP 2, CP Next or WordPress banana.

I’ll now shut the F*** up and start doing something (after a good barbecue, of course!). Have a good weekend y’all! Peace peace peace.

Fun read: code is not poetry

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Great! I think your approach is 100% right!

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I’ve been debating whether to add my voice since I’m no longer a CP user. However, I do feel this needs a reply.

Classic Commerce should not be lumped in with all the other failed/stalled/abandoned projects. It is actually a very rare example of a CP project that was seen through to completion. We were putting out stable releases; we were tracking any security issues that needed backporting; we had all the branding done and a dedicated website with a full set of documentation, including tutorials and almost 100 useful snippets that had all been tested with CC. It was a 100% finished, completed, working plugin. Then the lead developer got discouraged and left, so it is no longer being maintained.

Rather than endlessly discussing new directions and ideas, I suggest you start looking at why good people keep leaving.

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Probably English isn’t precise enough so I’m assuming with you you mean the community?
If you mean me please could you start by explaining who left and why. If they could have been “avoided to leave” and what the community should do differently. I’ll then do my best and what’s in my power to resolve that.

Other than of course the cases where some words are misunderstood, I’ve never seen an actual discussion here of someone exposing a problem, asking to solve it “or otherwise I’ve to leave”. Not since I’m here, to be precise. Maybe I’ve missed it.

I’ve seen several private posts complaining about things, and then subsequent public posts “I’ve to leave for (insert non-related cause) reason” or “ok bye” posts followed by deleting work done, or no voice at all on these forums but then rants on other blogs about how “certain people bully other people in cp”. The best of all is the “I’m still here but have no time!”.

I can unfortunately not help in those cases.
That is not professional and even if someone’s treated unprofessionally, It doesn’t mean we’ve to lower ourselves to that same level, but more than anything it’s simply not possible for a community to react upon such actions because it’ll always be too late and too intransparent.

Perhaps we start with yet another discussion by splitting this topic into a “why are good folks leaving cp”
One reason I can tell I know of: people who expected to make money with cp realized it’s not possible. And left. That’s unavoidable, I think.
I know of some personal issues between members of this community that have provoked some to leave by words.
That’s avoidable by entering in a discussion, and not solved by leaving.

I know of my own reasons why I’d decide to not contribute anymore. One of them is that there’s no broad enough diversification and transparency of decision making and key holding. Another is that I don’t see a promise in cp future in terms of being able to run a business based on cp. i can live with the latter. The first is something I hope will change, and I’ve addressed it repeatedly in public as well in the concerned private places. Some things have been addressed, others are in progress, so I’ll excericse more patience in regard.

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Yes, my apologies. “You” in the last sentence means the community.

I understand. Being a member of this community I can still try to fix if there is something to fix.

To start with, have you not been that lead dev of CC? Sorry if I am wrong, I am not sure if this is you, but I believe you where actively maintaining CC?

If that is the case, can I here and now ask what you need done or changed to come back and take the CC over again, if you would even be willing to do that, and if not, why, and if you are said ex lead dev of CC, why you got discouraged?

I leave it to the mods of this forum to split this topic once they recognise it got out of topic.

Thanks!

No. That was Tim. I have no ability for coding or managing a project in GitHub. When Tim left CC was no longer maintained.

Are we referring to Profile - 1stepforward - ClassicPress Forums when saying “Tim”?
There is at least one other Tim in the community I know of :sweat_smile:

Now, I tried to track down why this person left as I cannot personally recall it - perhaps I was too late to the party.

I can only recall last year’s work on CC done here Comparing 1.0.4...master · ClassicPress-plugins/classic-commerce · GitHub
“Tim” seems have left sooner, so after that the project was still alive. I also recall we fixed a security issue last year, which is (at least according its description) the one linked above.

I could not find any post from this Tim that they are leaving, why they are leaving, what upset them, what discouraged them.
How is the community supposed to “think about why” when we are not informed?

Am I wrong assuming that you are simplycomputing on GitHub? What was your reason to stop contribution, if I made the right connection?

My apologies if I miss something, I try to figure out if there is actually something to fix, or if it boils down to what I suspect it is: just the normal day in a community. People come, people leave, and it is always someone else’s fault, and things never get communicated before they get unbearable.

I didn’t know @1stepforward left at the time, it wasn’t a public discussion. From what I know, it was a disagreement with the direction/how things were going. This was a few months before you came to CP.

@ozfiddler left twice. Correct me if I’m wrong, first time was due to security issues with CP/CC and plugins. Second time, there was a discussion about pulling CC back to a research plugin status since it isn’t actively maintained.

It’s an unfortunate but recurring theme, especially since people leaving were contributing a lot to side projects like CC, Classic SEO, and developing plugins.

This conversation might need to be split off, if it needs to be had (again) :sweat_smile:

I use the WordPress mobile editor to generate my posts. If I remove XML-RPC, how do I connect my site to the mobile app? Is there another way?

The way it should be done now is through the REST API. But is that app still under development?

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Remove the app, open your mobile web browser and navigate the site from there. Easier.

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This would become a core plugin. If you need it, activate it. If you don’t need it, keep it deactivated.

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I use this app, WordPress for iPhone. I would like, if possible, a tutorial on how to make the connection via REST-API. If possible.

I use IAWRITER to produce the texts and export them to the WordPress application on the iPhone. It works very well. I hate accessing the back office area through Safari on the iPhone.

That’s really something the developers of the app should do. To be honest, they should have switched to that some time ago. That’s why I asked whether it’s still under development.

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If you already export from IAWriter, you should be able to export to html, then copy and paste that into a post, and add a title.

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