Looking for an honest opinion

… because I know I will find it in here :slightly_smiling_face:

I’ve been with CP since a few days before the massive WP upheaval. I’m a photographer and although I love my web site, it was built over a long time with a lot of trial and error. I never professed to understand what was going on with WP and I’ve been much happier here. Until I read the post on the CP Club about Elementor. Now I don’t understand that either, but it doesn’t sound good. I appreciate that you are working to develop themes and plugins, but my guess is that isn’t going to help someone like me who relies on themes like Photocrati, or plugins like NextGen.

So I’m at a crossroads again. All I really want to do is to get out with my camera, blog about my adventures and keep my site in good order. I will be honest and say that in spite of the size (over 300 pages), I would do whatever is necessary to keep it that way.

I think my questions are:
Do you envisage a problem with a site like mine using CP in the future?
If the answer to that is yes, then I may prefer to move back to WP now and do what has to be done.
If I did move back, what things would be involved? Would I have to edit every page to put all the content in blocks? I would if necessary, I just need to understand.
Is there a chance moving could break my site?
I use BackupBuddy and run it every time I blog or add new images. Would that be enough to mend it again?
Do you think there are any more WP horrors on the horizon?

I really don’t want to move. This is the sort of community that WP should have been. I hate what they’ve done and I worry about changes they will continue to make in the future. If you think I could carry on in here, then feel free to say. This is my web site so you have an idea of the work involved http://elements.uk.com/wordpress/

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Most plugins and themes, once written, don’t need many changes. There are those that interface with external services, and those are subject to changes in the interface or the service, but really the main job of the code is handled when the code is released. People find bugs and fix them, but that is minor and expected.
The majority of plugins don’t need to interface with the editor, so the big change in WP 5.0 didn’t actually affect your plugins. Even the theme doesn’t do a lot with the editor, and if it wants to style the new editor, it’s not that involved to put some colors.

The bigger problem is that WP is bringing the editor into more parts of the admin, like widget page, menu page, and what will replace the Customizer called Full Site Editing. Because of this roadmap, it will affect more plugins and themes, whose code will need to change and no longer support the classic way of doing things. The prior versions of these will work on ClassicPress, but the way that WP serves plugins and themes is to only show the most current version in the admin. And the WP version obviously doesn’t match the CP version, so that is always a hassle. By forking some of these older versions into a CP version, CP users can maintain their site without the churn of development at WP.

There’s no doubt that you can easily maintain your site either way you choose. You don’t even have to convert to blocks if you go with WP, since it’s just HTML and will work regardless.
You just have to decide if you want the WP roadmap or the CP roadmap. And remember that there are thousands of WP sites still on every version of WP. https://wordpress.org/about/stats/

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My bet is, that you will have less headache with ClassicPress. Nobody says, that CP there will be without rough edges, but WP will bring a lot more frustration and headache. And the plugins problems will be solved in one or another way, like was solved with ClassicCommerce or ClassicSEO.

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Thank you, although 90% of that went over my head. It’s OK. I WANT to stay here. I think I just worry that needing a gallery for my site, I’m not the typical CP user. I do know that if I find a problem in the future, the only genuine help I could get is in here. I just hate all the change and aggravation. Sigh… :slightly_smiling_face:

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Looking at which specific plugins and themes you’re using is the key to answering your question. The best thing you can do is to write to the authors of these plugins and themes, and ask them to keep support for the WP 4.9 branch (which ClassicPress is based on) and ClassicPress.

Many, but not all, plugin authors are doing this already. You can find more information about which plugins are supported under ClassicPress and which ones are currently reported as working in our plugins subforum.

ClassicPress is in a transition period where we are clarifying our own direction and we have our own community of plugin developers rallying behind that. WP is taking a very different direction (not so much “rewriting everything” as “building more layers on top of everything”) and some WP plugin developers are following that path instead.

At the very least you’ll have to learn how the block editor works and how to use it. It will continue changing as it is still in heavy development with the goal of moving into more areas of the admin dashboard.

Always a chance, but if you have backups you are well-prepared to get things back up and running again.

I can’t tell you what decision to make here, but I can tell you that people are successfully running much more complex sites than yours on ClassicPress, and our community is here to stay.

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Thank you for that. I have written to the authors of my plugins - that was about a year ago. My biggest problem is not understanding any of this. In my heart I know I made the right move here. I haven’t looked in this forum for a bit because it all goes over my head. I was only checking my bookmarks were working when I found the news about Elementor. I don’t use it, but it didn’t sound encouraging. I’ll stay put and wait :slightly_smiling_face:

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I think people sometimes get scared by the thought of using an older version of a plugin (because, for example, it’s compatible with WP 4.9 and thus CP) instead of a more recent one because they are inclined to infer that the more recent one must be better. But, with the development of Gutenberg, which (as @joyously said) is going to impinge on ever more parts of WordPress, the idea that a more recent version of a plugin is necessarily better should receive much more scrutiny.

Why? Because many of the changes made to later versions of a plugin will increasingly be made simply to maintain compatibility with Gutenberg. They won’t make the plugin better, just more compatible with a moving target. In fact, older versions will often turn out to be more stable and thus much less problematic.

It’s also becoming clear that, if there is demand within the CP community for a particular plugin, but that plugin is now known to have some sort of problem (e.g. a security issue), then it is likely to be forked anyway.

So, as someone who does maintain some quite complex sites, I am feeling much happier going forward with the sites I have on CP than with those whose owners have decided to stick with WP plus Gutenberg for now. (And the difference in speed is already quite remarkable.)

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Hi Zooey, nice to see you back. I understand your concern with NextGen. I have a client using it (they are on CP), and we paid for the lifetime version at around $300. It’s doing a really good job. When I researched possible plugins it was the best by far. So I am also a little concerned that one day a problem may show up.

One of the things that concerns me is that if I do have an issue and need to contact the developers I will have to say “I’m running it on ClassicPress” and I’m not sure how receptive they will be to helping with that. But they are still saying it works on 4.0.0 or higher, so while that stays <5 we should be OK.

It is quite possible to move your site back to WP if you decide at any time down the track that this is the best option for you. It’s not that difficult to do the migration. It’s just a matter of taking a backup, changing it over to WP4.9, taking another backup, then doing the WP upgrade to latest version (testing at each stage to make sure everything continues to work).

But I would suggest that you stick with CP and see how it goes. If you have a problem, report it here and there’ll be people to help you diagnose/fix it. And if it really is insurmountable then we will talk you through the process to move back to WP.

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I’ve developed several sites for photographers, the latest one using Envira Gallery which is just blerg. The license for Envira has expired so I’m using an older version of the plugin and it all still works.

One thing that CP Club doesn’t mention is that Beaver Builder have said they are supporting CP. So BB is still a viable option. It also doesn’t mention that CP has now been added to Softaculous and that both Litespeed and Shield Security are supporting CP. On top of that, we are developing our own e-commerce solution (Classic Commerce) and SEO plugin (Classic SEO) with others to follow in due course.

We’re doing our best to get developers to support CP. Some are reluctant, some have said no. Others are more open and I think we’ll see more and more developers keen to support CP as it progresses.

Many users (like me) are choosing to stick with older versions of plugins and themes, ones that are compatible with WP 4.9.13. And they work just fine! Quite often, there’s just no need to upgrade to the latest version.

If you’re OK with Gutenberg, then that has to be an option but do consider what I said above.

As I understand it, Gutenberg will put the whole page in one block. Or Classic Editor may be an option…until WP stops supporting and developing it.

Yes. But there’s always a chance that an update or move of any kind could break your site.

Well, having a good backup is always a must so you should be able to revert if things go pear-shaped.

In my opinion, yes. Everything in WP is becoming blocked based. Themes could even become a thing of the past. And I even have a suspicion they may pull out of open source altogether and move everyone toward wordpress[.]com, just like Wix or Squarespace only you’d be using WordPress. But I’ve nothing to back that up. It’s just a hunch.

Well, that’s my tuppence worth :slight_smile:

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It does say you can use Beaver Builder instead of Elementor.

Not all installations of Softaculous offer ClassicPress.

The site is not designed to duplicate the forum list of what plugins or developers still support CP.

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About moving all to WP.com
It’s also my hunch.

They released ftp access and MySQL for business plan and higher recently… Together with an horrid template system (basically you set a theme, create a page and have the option to select another theme layout for that page. And this works with posts too. Horrid).

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Moved discussion re Softaculous to new thread.

2 posts were split to a new topic: ClassicPress sometimes isn’t available in Softaculous

Wow! I disappear for a few hours and have a load of help when I return. @timkaye has hit the nail on the head. I’m either scared to use an older version, simply don’t consider it, or I’m a bit of a perfectionist and update everything immediately without thinking. From now on I shall take a screen shot before updates and test that everything is working afterwards (something I have never considered). If anything breaks, then I will simply revert to the previous version.

And @ozfiddler - I contacted the developers of NextGen over a year ago. They weren’t exactly dismissive of CP, but they didn’t rule out possible problems in the future either. I too believe it to be the best gallery plugin around.

I never expected CP Club to mirror this site. I had problems joining, still not sure I can post, but I have saved the link. Sadly it isn’t used much at the moment - possibly because I’m one of the few lone bloggers to have jumped ship so early. I’m sure it has a place as things develop :slightly_smiling_face:

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I would suggest you don’t test plugin updates (or, indeed, any changes at all) on your live site. Instead, clone it and test things on the cloned site. Then, when you’re happy everything will be OK, you can update your live site too.

Some hosts provide what they call a “staging environment” where you can play with a cloned site. If yours doesn’t, you can download the free version of Desktop Server by ServerPress and use it to set up a ClassicPress site on your own computer. Then, using a plugin like All-in-One WP Migration, you can make a clone of your live site and upload it to the CP site on your own computer.

This way, there’s never a reason to be scared when updating something.

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I have three sites built using Elementor. They are frozen at 2.7.6 because 2.8.0 requires WordPress 5.x

Yesterday, my paid extension pack for Elementor updated and crashed the sites. So I had to find the problem and replace the offending file with one from an earlier version. I now have to change the plugin’s version number so it doesn’t update again.

Unfortunately, I feel the difference caused by the dividing line between WP 4 and WP 5 is going to become an ever increasing problem when it comes to plugins. I think this year is going to be a difficult one for people who are tossing up which CMS to use.

As the two CMS’s drift apart, more and more hiccups are going to crop up. Of course this is only my opinion and not based on any facts. It’s just a niggling feeling I have as I watch various plugins causing problems that need to be brought up in this forum.

Consequently, I have not posted anything new at the CP Club. I needed to highlight the Elementor problem, which has forced some people to go back to WP, eg: WP Plugins A-Z. I am in a holding pattern, waiting to see how things progress.

Rather than post something negative, I have decided not to post anything there. Even posting this is probably going to get people jumping down my throat, but if you want “an honest opinion”, asking the manufacturer is never a good idea.

Having said that, the forum has always stated it is open to everyone’s right to have their say. So I’ve used mine. I’ll just put my flak jacket on.

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I don’t think you’ll need a flak jacket!

But I do think it’s important to appreciate that not all plugins are the same in this context. Generalizing from just one plugin is, therefore, highly problematic.

Your example, Elementor, is a page-building plugin. It’s precisely those types of plugin that are going to be affected most (and soonest) by the development of Gutenberg. So they will be making many changes just to keep up with Gutenberg development. Yet, as I explained above, those changes won’t necessarily make the plugin better, just different, so that it can continue to work with Gutenberg.

In your case, it looks like you’re going to have to decide between using Elementor with WP, or using CP and an alternative to Elementor (such as Beaver Builder, which has promised to support CP).

But many people won’t experience that dilemma, because their plugins won’t be affected so immediately (if at all). Indeed, there are parts of WP/CP that won’t be affected by Gutenberg for some time (and, in some cases, ever). So plugins that hook into those areas will happily continue to work on CP for many years to come.

We have, of course, anticipated this divergence. We always knew that WP with Gutenberg was going in a different direction. That’s why we forked it and created ClassicPress. And that’s also why there are plans to have our own directory of plugins.

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Correct me if I’m wrong, but I see quite a few threads on plugins that are not working and people are having to use older versions or hack into them. It is not just page-builder plugins.

I do appreciate the effort being put into developing CP specific plugins, but as I said in my article, we can’t fork every plugin that stops working. Well, not until we get more developers on-board at least.

Besides, it’s 2am here, so I shouldn’t be writing forum posts :upside_down_face:

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Um… I did read about not testing a live site, but when I tried (can’t recall which instructions I followed), I failed at the starting gate. For a total beginner, which method would be easier to set up? My host has been very good and actually set up WP for me, even though I didn’t request that in my initial query. Would it be correct to ask if they can do this? I’m happy to try the other route if it’s better. I can generally figure things out myself if I’m put on the right road to start with :slightly_smiling_face:

The best route - to use staging functionality from your host or plugin. Downside: as usual, this is a premium feature of backup plugins.

The manual path can be this:

  1. Do you have a spare domain? Setup a new CP site. It will act as staging.
  2. Use WPVivid free version to automatically migrate from production to the staging site. It can migrate from one to another domain wonderfully, I have dome it many times. In fact, I purchased lifetime premium to support developers.
  3. Test everything on the staging site, if your test are OK - perform modifications to the production.

Again, WPVivid is wonderful migration plugin.

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I don’t have a spare domain. I have contacted my host though, so I’ll see what they say tomorrow. (Thursday actually - I’m off on a very long day trip for some landscape photography tomorrow) :slightly_smiling_face: