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@blueskyphoenixllc: Marketing/Community meeting here in marketing in 4 minutesā¦ who is here?
@classicpress014: Me
@blueskyphoenixllc: Hi Graham!
@classicpress014: Evening
@blueskyphoenixllc: Ah, yes. you must be on the other side of the pond 
@classicpress014: Yep. 10pm here. 1am on east coast
@blueskyphoenixllc: Cool. Thanks for being here.
@classicpress014: no worries
@raygulick: Iām here
@mte90net: hi!
@wade: Here
@blueskyphoenixllc: Hi Ray, Daniele, Wade!
@elisabetta.marina.cle: Hi
@blueskyphoenixllc: We had like 8 more folks respond that they would be attending so let me grab their namesā¦
now 7 (hi Elisabetta!
@elisabetta.marina.cle: 
Happy this meeting is taking place.
Thanks for setting this up for today this time.
@blueskyphoenixllc: @kontakt @padraigobeirn @gt @guerreiro.rui @classicpress196 @pieter
@padraigobeirn: @padraigobeirn has joined the channel
@classicpress196: @classicpress196 has joined the channel
@blueskyphoenixllc: Does anyone know who Viktor and Blaze are? When I @ them I donāt get a nameā¦ theyāre new to the Forums I think
@wade: I will pin a forum announcement
@classicpress014: Viktor owns a web hosting company in Europe somewhere I think
@blueskyphoenixllc: Thanks, Wade!
@classicpress014: he registered ClassicCommerce.cc for us and offered hosting
@pvnoort: @pvnoort has joined the channel
@blueskyphoenixllc: Nice! Hi Klein.
Okay weāll get started at leastā¦
@elisabetta.marina.cle: Are we sure he is on slack also?
@blueskyphoenixllc: Not sure but in my notification I said weād be in the marketing Slack channel soā¦
@raygulick: Letās get started
@blueskyphoenixllc: Okay first agenda item: Marketing & Community roles & guidelines
@elisabetta.marina.cle: So he has to land hereā¦ Right
@pieter: sorry guys, had an important phone call
@pvnoort: I will mostly be a passive observer at this time. As there is an emergency that needs my attention, so Iāll be popping in and out.
Iāll try to keep an eye on slack
@blueskyphoenixllc: This is the first of what will likely be a series of meetings, because marketing & community overlap in some areas
I think itās a good idea to set forth some guidelines of what falls where
not to nitpick every single areaā¦ thatās not the point
but to outline some generalities
For instanceā¦ IMO, I think marketing is more about creating and putting out content to draw folks in, educate them about CP, and convert them to users.
Community is more about interacting with people
your thoughts?
@elisabetta.marina.cle: Totally agree.
@wade: I would agree with this, and that was my committee agenda point (even though I was unable to attend)
@blueskyphoenixllc: So - as an example. I put out a tweet. Someone responds (to the positive or negative) ā community picks up that ball and deals with it
@mte90net: Our vision for the Marketing Team is to be the go-to resource for strategy and content for other WordPress teams.
@pvnoort: In my view, in the broadest terms, Marketing is users and CP reaching out to non-users, community is user on user communication or CP on user.
like those arent hard lines, but thats how I think of it in my head.
@mte90net: If youāre interested in organizing a meetup or a WordCamp, the community blog is a great place to get started. There are groups working to support events, to create outreach and training programs, and generally support the community.
@slack1596: is lurking
@mte90net: this are the definition from https://make.wordpress.org/
I think that for marketing we are like aligned but for community we are diffrenet because we started now
@elisabetta.marina.cle: @mte90net thanks for mentioning them here.
@raygulick: I think right now, marketing is still at the creating and sharing content stage; strategy for other teams is a ways off
@mte90net: I think that for us the community team is where all the team need to interact between each other and with the platform we have: discourse, petitions etc
@elisabetta.marina.cle: I think however we have to set standards working for CP. WP guidelines can be a first approach, but we have to be sure they work for us or write our own.
@blueskyphoenixllc: Arguably, we are all community, even if not part of the formal community teamā¦ 
@raygulick yes agreed
@raygulick: Let;s talk about kinds of content and sharing?
@mte90net: an example can be: i18n need to promote better to find new reviewer so reach community to help the communications inside and marketing for the promotion outside. at the same time reach core for the dev stuff required
@blueskyphoenixllc: So yes ā letās use Danieles example ā he needs i18n help
@raygulick: Definitely, marketing needs to support those kinds of needs.
@wade: In my opinion that would fall to Marketing
@blueskyphoenixllc: marketing can write an ask that would go out via social media
@wade: Although, I can see why there could be an argument for the community to be involved
@classicpress196: marketing would do initial call with community following up with people who respond?
@elisabetta.marina.cle: Marketing, but not entirely. We can look for reviewers outside and inside.
@blueskyphoenixllc: @wade I see the forum as more in the community realm, yes?
@wade: I would agree with that
@blueskyphoenixllc: Because in that case, marketing would make the ask via social, but community would work with marketing in the forum
@wade: We should be putting out announcements there - but I think we need some guidelines on that too
@elisabetta.marina.cle: Forum is community. Also slack and discord howeverā¦
@raygulick: When someone responds to a specific message like that, there needs to be someplace or someone that gets them started.
@blueskyphoenixllc: @elisabetta.marina.cle I agree
Yes @raygulick that was my next comment ā
@wade: Ya, community at the moment has a wide range
@blueskyphoenixllc: marketing brings people inā¦ community helps them find their home
@wade: I like that
@blueskyphoenixllc: @wade we have been intentionally creating the org structure so that team leads have autonomy to set things up in the way that makes the most sense to them. That means YOU can set up whatever guidelines you feel appropriate
@wade: I mean community at the moment kind of feels like a catch all (not that I mind as we are growing the teams). We are working on engaging users on all the platforms, while also being in charge of the new site
@blueskyphoenixllc: It makes sense to coordinate w/ marketing but you get final say
@wade: Which is why I like the org structure
@pvnoort: While I agree most of slack/discord is community, I think announcements falls under marketing?
@raygulick: Not always
@wade: Announcements in my opinion should be open to all teams
@elisabetta.marina.cle: @pvnoort I think it falls under both
@blueskyphoenixllc: announcements can definitely be marketing sometimes. this is a good example of how teams can overlap
all teams
announcements is a push style of communication, however. Community is more of a pull
@pvnoort: Well, I think that any official announcement, even those of other teams, should cooperate with marketing to make sure the message is clear with CPās how do you call itā¦stance? style?
@blueskyphoenixllc: yes ā ābrand voiceā
@raygulick: Do we have one of those?
@blueskyphoenixllc: we are evolving it
@wade: For sure, which is why I would like guidelines on that for when teams post in the announcements category
@blueskyphoenixllc: it will eventually be something we can describe and include in the brand style guide
that way itās available to everyone
@pieter I think youād found something that was valuable the other day ā something about rules for Twitter posting?
@wade: That sort of thing we are arrange behind the scenes though - I would like a team scheduling area where any team could post their announcement, then the marketing team can make adjustments and then the community team can schedule it (so not to overwhelm the community with 10 announcements in the same day)
@raygulick: I would love to have 10 things to post each dayā¦
@blueskyphoenixllc: I like that
@pieter: hahaha, yes very useful for everyone! link: https://twitter.com/ValaAfshar/status/1081799255852023808
@blueskyphoenixllc: what can we do to make that happen?
@wade: @raygulick it would annoy me getting a notification every 5 minute from teams I am not interested in
@elisabetta.marina.cle: Definitely we have to set brand marketing guidelines before having 10 valuable and consistent things to post per day
@wade: @blueskyphoenixllc I already have a scheduling area, we will just need lay out some rules
@blueskyphoenixllc: Thank you @pieter ā I think we could stand to follow some of these rules
@raygulick: Was @pieter going to elaborate about Twitter posts?
@blueskyphoenixllc: 1 do not respond to negativity
2 give without expecting a get
3 do not nitpick as a hobby
4 create personal learning network
5 promote others good work
6 do not try to sell, instead educate
7 tone of voice matters
8 connect people
9 choose kind over clever
@pvnoort: I espicially think 9 is important
@pieter: and 1
@raygulick: Re:#9: especially important, as ācleverā often doesnāt translate
@elisabetta.marina.cle: I like them.
@pvnoort: I see to many brand twitters trying to be the next Wendys
@blueskyphoenixllc: yes, and failing at it
@@viktor [discord]: Good discussion everyone, Iām keeping an eye on it but driving right now so canāt reply. 
@blueskyphoenixllc: Hereās another good one in the comments: Sarcasm almost never changes someoneās opinions
@pvnoort: in the worst case, theyll even think you agree with them.
@blueskyphoenixllc: Sarcasm is too easily lost in translation.
@raygulick: Propose a slight change to #1: do not respond to (or with) negativity
@blueskyphoenixllc: I think that for a while, it will be good for marketing and community to work together closely on brand voice/messaging.
@raygulick thatās a perfect transition to another agenda item ā drama
I completely agree with you ā responding to or with negativity only feeds it
@pvnoort: Marketing and Community always need to keep working closely together. If marketing does one thing and the community does another, youāll get users confused and non-users falling into the unexpected.
@blueskyphoenixllc: I think that sometimes itās necessary to address a situation, however ā in this case I think that at least one other person should be consulted before hitting the āsendā button
@wade: I said this in the other channel, but I think drama should not be responded to by the official accounts
@blueskyphoenixllc: Also agree here
@pvnoort: At least, the official accounts should never take a side. Official accounts can ask them to take it into a more private place?
@wade: When I say something CP as an organization has a way to backpedal - distant themselves from what was said. When the official account says something we have to stand by it
@raygulick: Suppose an official account is directly engaged. Just withdraw?
@blueskyphoenixllc: How do other orgs deal with it?
@elisabetta.marina.cle: Not engage.
One nut in the sack has no voice alone
@pvnoort: If an official account starts drama, the manager failed. If someone else tries to start drama, the manager should ignore them.
@elisabetta.marina.cle: It falls under communicating without being negative.
@wade: That may be true, but on social media it is a whole different ball game - not responding can be just as bad as responding
@blueskyphoenixllc: Okayā¦ found this article: https://sproutsocial.com/insights/twitter-trolls/
I agree that not responding could be also perceived negativelyā¦ but we should have a plan on how to deal with it
@mte90net: I think that we can ignore at the moment, we have to many things to do and we cannot focus our time on that
@raygulick: Letās read the article later and talk about it later
@blueskyphoenixllc: sounds good ā
@raygulick: I just donāt want to have an āalways withdrawā approach. There should be other ways of addressing
@pvnoort: I know that article, I can at least say it is a good one.
@blueskyphoenixllc: @raygulick I think we can create a path forward that shows the larger social-verse that we address things in a rational way. We can figure it out.
So, back to the agenda
@classicpress014: point them to the main site contact page?
@blueskyphoenixllc: We talked about the first three things I thinkā¦ Daniele, Iāll work with you on some marketing language for the i18n help you need
Creating a marketing strategy/to-do list.
I know this has been on everyoneās mind forever. Getting the foundation laid (the brand) needed to be done first and itās now finished. Thanks to everyone for your patience there.
@scott: Hi everyone Sorry to drop in so late, had a call
@blueskyphoenixllc: No worries. Weāre about to talk marketing
so ā strategy-wise, there are a few things that Scott has asked for, and there are ideas that others have had ā thereās been no shortage of ideas, for sure. REALLY excited to have such an enthusiastic group.
I think what we need to do now is organize those thoughts and make some lists, so we can go implement those things
Design will work with marketing to create the visuals that go with the messaging
agreed?
@scott: yep
@wade: I think that make sense
@blueskyphoenixllc: So where shall we store our to-do list?
@wade: I have to pop out to another meeting, but will follow up after
@blueskyphoenixllc: (Forum seems to make some sense here?)
@raygulick: Definitely not on slack where it will disappear
@@viktor [discord]: Maybe Trello board?
@mte90net: you can create a slack notes
@wade: Just throwing in my two cents before I leave - I like the forum
@mte90net: or yes also the forum that is public to everyone
@blueskyphoenixllc: For a little while we were using Trello but that kind of faded out, and I just donāt want to add one more place that everyone has to go lookā¦
@pvnoort: There needs to be a place where all official documents like this can be stored. Forum is great for bringing it out to the community, but itās also a place where things can get lost if it gets busy.
@wade: I think 1) it will stay long term and 2) it is a central place for everyone
@blueskyphoenixllc: @pvnoort agree with you on official docs and things like brand collateral
@raygulick: Do we have a docs channel on forum?
@pieter: like make.wp.org I agree that we also need something like that, perhaps under the docs site?
@elisabetta.marina.cle: Forum
@blueskyphoenixllc: @raygulick yes we do
@raygulick: Not finding it
@blueskyphoenixllc: https://forums.classicpress.net/c/team-discussions/documentation
ClassicPress Forums: Documentation Forum
@pvnoort: Of course everything needs to also be posted on http://classicpress.coffee so community members can discuss but, you need to also keep a library or databank with the official docs.
ClassicPress Forums
@laurence: @laurence has joined the channel
@blueskyphoenixllc: I think docs is not the place for branding or marketing
@raygulick: Thats ādocumentationā, not the right place, IMO
@blueskyphoenixllc: we have a marketing forum, letās use it
@scott: Pinned topics?
@raygulick: Thing is, if we want it to be available to all teams, is marketing the best place?
@elisabetta.marina.cle: A wiki? Inside marketing forum?
@pvnoort: pinned topics get unpinned when read, donāt they?
@scott: ah
@blueskyphoenixllc: @raygulick Iām feeling confused now ā āitā being the overall marketing strategy?
@@viktor [discord]: Using forum as docs will get unwieldy quickly, itās not designed for that.
@blueskyphoenixllc: I donāt think we should store actual files in the forumā¦ but we can link to where they are stored
@elisabetta.marina.cle: Uhm. What if we put that on a page of classicpress.net? Like brand visuals
@pvnoort: you need a structured databank with all the documents. You should paste copies into the forum for the community to discuss, but you also need a singular dedicated place where you easily retrieve old documents.
@blueskyphoenixllc: @pvnoort what documents are we talking about here?
@raygulick: If Iām a team member (not marketing) and I need to quickly get my hands on social media guidelines, will I think to look under marketing?
@blueskyphoenixllc: @elisabetta.marina.cle James and I are working on that
@pvnoort: Marketing guidelines, to-do lists meeting summaries
like an archive
or am I thinking to broad?
@blueskyphoenixllc: I think we are talking about different things here hold on a sec
@raygulick: Whatever solution, it needs to be easily accessible to everyone on every team
@blueskyphoenixllc: overarching documents: style guide, logos, other visuals, can be stored in a common location accessible to all
I donāt think actual FILES should be stored on the forum
Meeting notes are currently stored on the forum
@@viktor [discord]: Maybe Dropbox or free AWS S3 bucket can be used to store files and links available on the forum and/or website.
@blueskyphoenixllc: IMO, to-doās should be broken out into individual forum posts so people can take on the work and go off and do it
@pvnoort: If you do want to put to-dos in the forum
make sure its clear what they are, seperate them from general questions and other stuff
@blueskyphoenixllc: weāll need to create some guidelines around that and some accountability measures
@elisabetta.marina.cle: @pvnoort where else can we show to-dos?
@pvnoort: I donāt know, I am just saying that if you do put them there, they need to be in a dedicated space, where only admins can make new threads
@blueskyphoenixllc: The marketing forum ā up to this point ā hasnāt had too many questions?
Iām not familiar with Forum structure. @wade is the best person to ask about breaking the marketing forum into sections; maybe this can be done?
but I think you make a good point @pvnoort
@pvnoort: You cant go with currents, it might be neet now, but when CP grows the amount of questions (and possible vandalism) also grows.
@@viktor [discord]: How about Backblaze B2? They offer 10GB free, itās an alternative to S3. But cheaper.
@blueskyphoenixllc: Weāll figure out the logistics ā in our few remaining minutes, what do you all see as the top marketing priorities right now?
@mte90net: improve the communication between the various team and find new contributors
@raygulick: Content/messaging
@wade: Thatās possible, would use the same system as the announcements 
@elisabetta.marina.cle: Find a way to be personable, the way official Facebook is handled gives too much the idea of automation and doesnāt boost engagement. Brand voice in short. Engaging vs. Nagging.
@pieter: I think the point @elisabetta.marina.cle brings up also has to do with the audience on that media
@blueskyphoenixllc: I agree w/ Ray that we need content. We need to be writing blog posts and fresh social content
@@viktor [discord]: We should have a page about contributing blog posts to CP blog.
@blueskyphoenixllc: and I agree w/ @elisabetta.marina.cle as well, Iām seeing repetitive tweets & LinkedIn content, we need new stuff
@pieter: The audience for example on LinkedIn seems to be much more engaging than on FB
@blueskyphoenixllc: and some fresh visuals
but visuals, again, are driven by content
@pieter: maybe the content of messages needs to be adjusted per media (means even more work)
@@viktor [discord]: Thatās usually ideal, but does create more work.
@elisabetta.marina.cle: All posts starting with ādo you know thatā making people feel like they know nothing? And no new content? Graphics taken from something like pixabay not in line with branding? I am audience on Facebook. Believe me it feel automated and rigid.
@blueskyphoenixllc: If I were working with my marketing clients, Iād have an editorial calendar set up and a means of consistent content generation
@raygulick: Are we ready to start thinking in terms of campaigns?
@blueskyphoenixllc: I think so. I think some commitments could be made among us here to start generating content
If you start with blog posts, that can generate a ton of social content
@elisabetta.marina.cle: Count me on content generation.
@raygulick: With campaigns, we start with goals, right?
@blueskyphoenixllc: yes ā so, whatās our goal? for now, one blog post per week?
@raygulick: More users
More contributors
@blueskyphoenixllc: haha okay larger picture goal
@elisabetta.marina.cle: And I heard the magic word ācampaignā. Many thanks for calling things their name
@@viktor [discord]: Awareness is key right now.
Most people donāt know about CP.
@elisabetta.marina.cle: So one blog post per week aimed at awareness
@scott: Which is a big thing Iāve been hoping for - we need to reach out to journalists and spread the word outside of the WP sphere
Unfortunately this is a thankless job
(gathering the details and doing the outreach)
@blueskyphoenixllc: Right, and up to this point no one has been willing to take that on
@raygulick: Itās a skill set that none of us seem to haveā¦
@scott: Weāre being censored on all the major WP-focused publications right now
@classicpress014: John Overall does a weekly segment on CP in his podcast
@@viktor [discord]: I think having v1 out can be a good catalyst for news outreach
@classicpress196: for the campaign, you really need v1 to be live
@scott: So we need to go further afield
@elisabetta.marina.cle: It has to be someone with the right contacts? Or anyone can reach out to bbc&cnn?
@blueskyphoenixllc: I am happy to write a template for an intro email that could be sent to journalists, but a template isnāt enough to get our foot in the door. And I agree, a campaign like this is will carry more weight once we have v.1
@scott: Yep, the first outreach would be in conjunction with v1 launch
@raygulick: I donāt think a campaign has to wait on anything
@scott: Basically, we need a compiled list of journos, their focus, their publications and their contact details
I started a shared google spreadsheet for this
one sec
@raygulick: This is for the v1 announcement?
@pieter: As both @viktor and @classicpress196 are saying: without a v1 release there is imo no need to invite the āofficialā mainstream media. Remember there is only 1 chance with a first impression.
@classicpress014: Morten Van Hendricksen likes CP too
@elisabetta.marina.cle: @raygulick awareness
@scott: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LāXcyg7JkgESDp8FM8s2Ve-AfQPVgbkAknaPmJMDmE/edit?usp=sharing
@blueskyphoenixllc: @scott I think anyone thatās contacting journalists needs to do so from a CP email address
@raygulick: We are likely to have concurrent campaigns
@scott: Yep, definitely
I would want a press release to come from ClassicPress
@@viktor [discord]: It would be nice if we could find some relatively big website switch to CP, as case study/example.
@blueskyphoenixllc: v1 is still scheduled for launch just a couple of weeks from now, isnāt it?
we donāt have much time to get our act together
@elisabetta.marina.cle: So letās say we can handle awareness via our blogs, but the v1 outreach should happen on big media, and someone with expertise has to manage it to make a good impression
@scott: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LāXcyg7JkgESDp8FM8s2Ve-AfQPVgbkAknaPmJMDmE/edit?usp=sharing
Is that google link working?
Slack is saying that itās only visible to me
@blueskyphoenixllc: @scott it works for me
@pvnoort: It is working
@scott: ah, cool
sorry for the double post!
@blueskyphoenixllc: this is a good start
who can go hunt these down?
and who can add more to the bunch?
@@viktor [discord]: I think we can all agree our first campaign and main goal is v1 outreach and preparation for that.
@blueskyphoenixllc: So I think this is our near-term goal ā a well-written press release and a long list of folks to contact.
Iāll write the PR. Can each of you take on the task of hunting some of these down and finding more?
Also, I think it would be good to have more content on our own blog.
@@viktor [discord]: Iāll see if I can help.
@elisabetta.marina.cle: No experience in writing press releases, but I can draft something for someone to refine
@@viktor [discord]: What type of content do we want on the blog right now?
@blueskyphoenixllc: @elisabetta.marina.cle Iāll write it ā itās in my wheelhouse
@elisabetta.marina.cle: @blueskyphoenixllc just drop a line if you need help.
@pvnoort: Do the releases need to be translated, or are we only doing official language?
@@viktor [discord]: Marketing how-to to attract general biz audience? Or something WP/CP specific?
@blueskyphoenixllc: Content for the blog ā we could write about i18n, for instance (and put out a call for help for Daniele)
and we can talk about the incoming v1
create buzz about that
@elisabetta.marina.cle: Question: are we considering on announcing in various languages? If I find some names to add to @scott lists here in Italy, are we considering to supply them with an Italian version of press release?
@blueskyphoenixllc: And the mission has been rewritten (see the brand guidelines) and will soon be live on the website
@raygulick: Gotta go, but list of desired blog topics is something we should make
@blueskyphoenixllc: so one could use that to write a blog post
@mte90net: if we find people for the various locales we can do the plan for a press release
right now we donāt have a lot of people
@blueskyphoenixllc: @elisabetta.marina.cle I think itās a great ideaā¦ and helping Daniele will also help us with the press release so yay!
Okay weāre all over time here, so we should close this meeting for now
@mte90net: https://classicpress.slack.com/files/UCFQJPU4Q/FF0B6QZPG/Reviewers_for_locales right now we need contributors and we are lacking them
@elisabetta.marina.cle: @mte90net so for now English speaking media.
@blueskyphoenixllc: Iām going to summarize the points of the meeting and start creating forum posts ā one for blog post ideas, for instance
@scott: I think a major campaign we also need to be doing is volunteer outreach - HOWEVER. This is needs to be laser-focused. Each post needs to ask for help on a specific item or area, and they should be taken to a landing page where they can get in touch with the team lead.
@pvnoort: I think it was a good meeting, I ended up replying and reading more of it then I thought I would, haha. I want to wish luck to all marketing and community officials. I hope this has been useful for them.
@scott: Otherwise weāll just get lots of well-meaning people who we donāt onboard properly, creating confusion and cause people to be turned off by CP
@blueskyphoenixllc: Thanks everyone for āattendingā! Conversation is welcome to continueā¦ for those who have to go, check back later
@scott once our org structure is more formalized, team leads can work on onboarding processes that will help eliminate confusion, and community can help with that as well (tagging @wade)