Order of User and Developer Guides

I still think ordering content similar to how the admin menu default is would be intuitive for users to follow.

How do you mean this @joyously?
The admin area has no such menus or items (such as this page for example)

What do I miss?

I am referring to the User docs and Developer docs. They can mostly follow the order of the admin menu, with extras like Installation before, and extras like Hardening or Troubleshooting after.

The page could even have an overview of the scope, like the Dashboard “At a Glance” widget.

I still don’t understand.
The User (or any other) Guide on the DOC site has nothing listed what is also present in the CP Admin Area.
While in the User Guides we have:

In the CP Admin area we have things like:

  • Dashboard
  • Home
  • Updates
  • Posts
  • Media
    [ETC]

There are no matching menus, nor will there ever be.
We wont have a User or Developer Guide called or even remotely similar to a “Posts” menu. If we need that, we need to ditch ClassicPress, because it would mean the GUI is so bad that no one can’t even publish a Post without a Guide for it.
There are indeed a few components that are similar, such as “Plugin Guidelines > Plugins” and “Theme Guidelines > Appearance > Themes”, but I am not sure this is really the way we want to show it in Documentation. After all those Docs are supposed to explain things we cannot already explain in the GUI, imo.

Thus the only I can imagine is that you mean to adapt the style of the User Guides to be looking like the CP Admin Area?
A sidebar with a menu? With sort of a Widget on top to kind of explain the main goal of this page and perhaps a few “Quicklinks”?

I probably still get it wrong :slight_smile:

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Also, lets follow on a dedicated ticket, because here we are about ordering of the current Guides on a page, which is resolved.

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I guess I was under the impression that the Codex had been copied. It contains user docs on how use the software, and touches on all the things in the menus. Over at WP, the pages that explained the editor were all retained, but new versions were made that explain the new editor, with links to the old pages if needed.
The developer explanations would be useful in the order of the admin menu also. For both, there are topics that are not on the menu, and that is an easy way to find them, if it’s made obvious that the docs are organized that way.

I didn’t expect that you would; only that docs that talk about Posts be arranged to come before docs that talk about Media and Pages and Comments.

No, I think that would be confusing to match the style. Having a side menu is not bad though. I was thinking the “At a Glance” is useful for a search page to show totals and maybe having it at the top of each major section (admin menu top-level item) would be good to show how many are in this section and what the subsections are. I use a plugin for showing child pages in a menu on the parent’s page…that sort of thing.

Thus the ordering by order="ASC" orderby="menu_order" is perfect, because it leaves the author the chance to order the item as he/she likes, using a number when publishing or updating the related Guide.

The idea of the at a glance is good, I like it, however I think we will do that once we add a more powerful actual search to those guide-pages (right now it is just a filter)
Then we can add something like a “found total of X in Y” and also perhaps some featured stuff, etc.

We might also think about a sidebar, but honestly without bootstrap I personally wont have the time to do it.
I am not well versed in native CSS and JS. A framework or a mockup would be needed in this case (because I don’t think we can and will add BS)

Leaving this open for when that(those) moment comes.

There’s a lot missing, is that right?
Everything that is linked on https://wordpress.org/support/ and its subpages.

All CP guides were written by CP community, I believe. None were copied from WP, so there will be a lot of missing stuff compared to WP docs.

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But all of that stuff was migrated from the Codex.

The code ref was generated using WordPress tools but everything else has been written by the community here.

If those docs are open source, then there is no reason why we couldn’t crib (from) them.

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There were several references in previous comments that the Codex was being copied. That is what the WP docs team did to create the “HelpHub” that is the articles linked from /support. Parts of it about the block editor came from Automattic and they made sure it was licensed to copy it (but I know that part is not needed). The “DevHub” part is from the Codex and is the more detailed developer explanations.

This is what @kevinhaig was working on originally. He built a scraper for the WP docs.

Right now, the documentation consists of guides written by CP community members and code reference generated by @smileBeda using ClassicPress.

Copying appropriate guides/articles from WP documentation could be a good idea, but needs to be discussed separately to consider licensing, etc.

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I think Kevin was only working on a parser for the code ref.

Just to confirm
We didn’t copy anything

The devhub is not made for the user guides (only)
It’s also a tool to parse actual code into code reference
And only that part has been reused, inclusive the theme (a stripped/changed version)

The rest is as others pointed out there community written and i think that’s good
We don’t want to start creating more „duplicate content“ than necessary

Can we please stay on topic esch ticket as much as possible?
We already went from „order should change“ to „content is missing“ over to „how it was built“ on this thread

It makes it really hard to keep up with what’s needed to be done.

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I don’t think there is anything left to do here.

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