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@James_Nylen: marketing meeting here today @ 6pm UTC (in about 4.5 hours)
maybe we should ping the channel a couple hours beforehand?
!channel Marketing meeting here in about 55 minutes!
@Michelle_Coe: Hello everyone! Thanks for taking the time to be here…
@Michelle_Coe: So I have a few things on the agenda today — but let’s start with getting the tagline out of the way…
@1stepforward: I thought we’d agreed that last time. I’m still happy with it personally.
@Michelle_Coe: We did agree on it last time, but there was some discussion so I just want to affirm that before we move forward. Does anyone have further input on that?
The CMS for Creators
Stable. Secure. Instantly Familiar.
@1stepforward: Looks good to me.
@ElisabettaC77: …instantly familiar caters to the people coming from wp. I think in this form includes everyone. The ones who never heard of WP and the ones experienced with it
@James_Nylen: +1 from me
@Michelle_Coe: I see six people here in the meeting and we have 5 votes, so seems to me like we’re in agreement. Awesome.
@James_Nylen: One thing that we still need there is to compile a list of places where this needs to be updated
and a document/article that explains why we are taking this direction, because the existing “business-focused CMS” article is linked from within the core dashboard
@Michelle_Coe: Agreed. That will take a bit of doing. I can handle the social media pieces, I’ve noticed some of the “About” info really needs to be updated anyway. Could someone take on the article?
@1stepforward: Quite a lot of the website needs to be updated.
@Pádraig: I’m happy to help with updating the website.
@Wade_Striebel: There are a couple of places on the forums I will update after the meeting
@James_Nylen: @Pádraig do you have an account on our forums? we use that to manage website access?
@Michelle_Coe: Cool. Tim & Pádraig, if you want to take the lead on the website? Just check with me on the messaging perhaps before you make it live…
Just for consistency
@1stepforward: Yep, fine.
@Michelle_Coe: And once everything is all updated and the article is written then we can post to social
Thank you Tim
So do we have a volunteer on writing the article?
@Pádraig: Yes, I’m on the forums James - Pádraig Ó Beirn.
@James_Nylen: Ok, we will be in touch about that, thanks!
@ElisabettaC77: Does the article need to cover the why we are changing usp?
Or more generally about CP evolution?
@Viktor: Sorry, phone call. I like the tagline.
@Michelle_Coe: I think talking a little about both is probably a good idea, Elisabetta
We haven’t done a substantial update article in a while, and it might be good to do that now that we’re into the new year
@ElisabettaC77: Ok. I will draft a piece tomorrow morning Italian time. Can someone look at it prior to publishing and eventually suggest edits?
@Viktor: It might be a good idea to also include info from the forum post about 2021 direction.
@James_Nylen: yes, and some of the things we got done in 2020
@ElisabettaC77: Agreed @Viktor and @James_Nylen
Thanks for suggesting
@James_Nylen: this level of agreement in a meeting is unprecedented
where are our dissenters?
@Michelle_Coe: I was just thinking myself how well things are going…
So I’ll just break now quick to say how happy I am to have this level of support. Thanks everyone.
@1stepforward: We’ve not finished yet
@Michelle_Coe: Yeah I guess we shouldn’t jinx it…
So, we’re updating the site, forums, social & writing an article. Anything else? Github docs, probably…
If anyone comes across something we’ve missed or thinks of something else, let us know. Otherwise we’ll keep moving.
@1stepforward: Places like Softaculous etc. which I’ll sort out.
@Viktor: Are we talking about website updates in general? Or specific to tagline?
@James_Nylen: all the places the tagline needs to be updated, for now
@Michelle_Coe: Let’s chat a bit about 2021 Marketing Plan.
So, a couple of things have been discussed — one is podcasts, blogs, etc. that we can guest on. James & I have done a few of these in the past, but the opportunities have mostly come to us vs. the other way around.
The blocker here — as with most things — is the time investment required to get in front of people and pitch ourselves to get on their podcast/blog.
I think they’re a great opportunity to increase awareness if we choose the right podcasts/blogs and are able to get time on them.
@Viktor: Maybe we should compile a list of all the places we would like to be mentioned on? And work on a few every month.
@1stepforward: I would think a lot of time went into the Twitter conference (I forget the name). What was the return like? Was the time well spent?
@Michelle_Coe: A list would be helpful… perhaps a Forum post would be a good place to build that list, to start?
Tim - good question on the Twitter conference. I can’t say we got much return out of it.
(I will create the Forum post for the list of podcasts/blogs)
@1stepforward: No, that’s my concern really. We need to pick and choose very carefully.
@Viktor: On the other hand, many WP meetups are doing zoom meetings. They usually look for speakers. Maybe that would be a good way to get in front of WP devs.
@James_Nylen: yes, virtual meetups are a decent way to generate a bit of awareness and activity
time commitment there too though
@Michelle_Coe: I agree on choosing carefully — I’m glad we did it, but at the same time, it was an investment of time and we need to see a return to justify it. We’ve all got full-time gigs elsewhere…
@1stepforward: and finding a suitable audience
@James_Nylen: I think in a more general way, we should encourage everyone to talk about ClassicPress in whatever context makes sense for you
@Viktor: Maybe we can try 1 or 2 in large metro areas.
@James_Nylen: we are still in a phase of the project where we have huge opportunity for growth
@Viktor: I usually bring up CP on Twitter when people complain about Guttie
@Michelle_Coe: Yes and when I see those posts I retweet them
@1stepforward: I mention it to competitors whenever I get chance.
@Michelle_Coe: I don’t keep as close of track, so I appreciate when others comment and tag the @getclassicpress account
@James_Nylen: Aside - anyone banned from twitter yet?
The purging lately has been pretty incredible to see
@Michelle_Coe: Not this week but still working on it:rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:
@James_Nylen: There will be blowback from that, I think
@Viktor: Facebook, yes. Came out of 30 day jail. Twitter, not yet
@Michelle_Coe: Well, let’s not get too far off track with that until the meeting is done
@Wade_Striebel: On the twitter note I am trying to be more public about what I am working on for CP - ie. the directory
@Michelle_Coe: Let’s continue thinking on what the most effective avenues are; I don’t want to sit on this and be all talk and no action but I do think it requires careful steps forward.
@Viktor: I think it would be helpful to have a post about building directory, so it can be shared easily.
Especially highliting differences between WP repo and CP dir.
@1stepforward: Let’s get this list together then take things from there.
@Michelle_Coe: I know there are those who think that there’s not ENOUGH marketing activity by CP and I don’t disagree, but being busy just for the sake of being busy isn’t a smart way to move forward.
So yes, let’s start with the list.
Tangentially related — and I know this is a hot topic for some — Google Ads for Nonprofits. Thoughts on the Evil Google?
@Viktor: We should make it into a wiki? maybe. With sections like Blogs, Podcasts, Meetups.
@Michelle_Coe: The Wiki is a good idea, yes
@Viktor: Money isn’t evil or good. It’s money
@1stepforward: Sorry, can we just go back to the list. Have we agreed who is responsible for that?
@James_Nylen: I’d probably start with a forum thread for the list
@Michelle_Coe: I’m doing the forum thread for the list
@ElisabettaC77: On the Google grants. I am favourable in having them.
@James_Nylen: I agree let’s finish the list topic first, anything else there? I imagine people would post their suggestions in the thread and a moderator can edit them into the initial post
and post what you can help with too!
@Viktor: Similar to plugins thread.
@Michelle_Coe: What else do we need to address on the lists…
@James_Nylen: so we have 2 lists
the list of places the tagline needs to be updated, in Michelle’s message above
I can make a forum thread for that one
and the other one is a list of events/sites/people/etc that we can contact for outreach
is that right?
@Viktor: sounds right
@James_Nylen: ok good
@1stepforward: I’m 100% in favour.
@James_Nylen: I would argue that money is inherently evil, at least the way today’s financial system is designed
from that perspective it’s a plus that they are not actually giving us money, but an “in kind” donation of ads
which costs them basically nothing
@Michelle_Coe: Very true
@ElisabettaC77: Ads aren’t evil per se…
@1stepforward: There are evils and then there are necessary evils.
@Wade_Striebel: I am in favour of Google Ads Grant
@James_Nylen: ads are a pretty awful industry, but there are worse things than a search engine letting us influence search results a bit
@1stepforward: I would put G in the latter.
@James_Nylen: which is basically what that is, right? we wouldn’t be running banners or popups on other sites if i am understanding correctly
@Wade_Striebel: At the end of the day that is where people are going to see/hear about CP while searching for issues they have with WP
@Michelle_Coe: The ads will basically appear after paid ads but before organic search results.
@1stepforward: Ads that show up in G searches is all I’m thinking of.
@Michelle_Coe: They aren’t display ads, they’re text ads
@James_Nylen: yes and that’s all we should use this for, imo
@Michelle_Coe: So, no banners or popups, no images
@ElisabettaC77: Basically they place us in the best place we need to be
@James_Nylen: so if they were giving us money then I would be putting the brakes on this and asking for a detailed plan of how we are going to spend it
I think we can refine our plan for this as it goes along, but roughly what segment(s) would we focus on with this?
@Michelle_Coe: Personally, I think it’s an opportunity to leverage a behemoth to go up against a behemoth
@Wade_Striebel: From my understanding it isn’t “giving us money” it is “giving us an ad budget” that we don’t directly pay for
@Michelle_Coe: So I’m in support of that.
@1stepforward: That’s a good way of putting it.
@ElisabettaC77: Wp people who aren’t happy. Theme & plugin devs. Newbies
@Viktor: Until they approve the grant, we should reserve that for another meeting probably.
@James_Nylen: I think it’s worth thinking about now
for example, I’d like to try to attract developers
@Michelle_Coe: As I understand it Viktor, since we already have Google for Nonprofits, we have access to these grant funds
@James_Nylen: plugin devs at first: “we won’t break your stuff”
@Michelle_Coe: But I will verify
@Viktor: oh that would be nice
I only know about it through nonprofit clients
@James_Nylen: theme devs: “do you like The Loop as in classic WP theme dev? come to ClassicPress”
@Michelle_Coe: We have $10K to spend so we can definitely approach several different groups
@James_Nylen: and core devs, not sure how to target for that at the moment
@Michelle_Coe: and track the clickthrough
@1stepforward: Searches for wp, specific wp plugins, cms, web systems, web developers, etc
@Viktor: We would need to come up with a keyword list that devs might use
@James_Nylen: yes, but developers is just one segment
what else might we do with this?
@Wade_Striebel: > and track the clickthrough
We will need to be careful with, we don’t want to add GA back to the sites from my understanding
@Viktor: And forum sign up would be our goal conversion, maybe download button too.
@Michelle_Coe: I believe we can track the clicks from the ads themselves
@James_Nylen: yes i was going to say we should be tracking forum signups and general forum activity
@Michelle_Coe: we won’t be able to track once they land on our site but we can track if they click the ad
@1stepforward: e-commerce, sell online, websites
@Viktor: so we can’t set up conversion tracking? which will make it impossible to use conversion optimization in adwords
@James_Nylen: sure we can
if it comes down to it we can make a bunch of 302 redirects
and we have the server logs, which enables quite a bit if we actually want to take the time to study them
@Michelle_Coe: As far as specific keywords, we should make another list…
Who would like to head that up?
@1stepforward: Just thinking that. Another list.
@Viktor: Have we considered using Piwik/Matomo to own data but still do some tracking? Even if it’s just log importing.
@James_Nylen: I do not want to send our visitors’ data to third-party services
I would rather we use awstats or something like that
@1stepforward: I can do the keyword / ads list.
@ElisabettaC77: Matomo can be self hosted.
@Viktor: No third-parties, self-hosted.
They even have tag manager feature.
@James_Nylen: ah ok, so I can take a look at those solutions
I know awstats and there is one other like that, any others you would recommend?
@Michelle_Coe: I use awstats, love it
@Wade_Striebel: I like Fathom Analytics, but that is a paid service - anyways keywords is probably a large undertaking
@Viktor: Plausible is a nice new tool, have self-hosted version. But Matomo would be most comprehensive self-hosted alternative to Google Analytics.
@James_Nylen: yes, keywords, we probably want a way to rank them
@Viktor: Well, being Google Ads certified I can probably help with keywords. We’ll just need to come up with some general topics/themes/audiences, so I have a starting point. Like what James mentioned about devs.
“the CMS for creators”
if our tagline is any good we can use that as a base
devs are one type of creator
people who want the freedom to build decent sites are another type
@1stepforward: OK, more than happy for Viktor to do the keywords / ads list.
@Viktor: oh sorry, i didn’t see your comment
@Michelle_Coe: Agreed, thanks Viktor —
@Viktor: Lets confirm we do have ad budget, and then I can start.
@James_Nylen: Alright so are we doing that, given the stipulations above?
People will complain afterwards, but they should’ve been here
@Michelle_Coe: Yes, let’s do it. Viktor, I’ll look into the budget this week
@1stepforward: Well, that was easy
@Pádraig: Regarding the forum, Is it possible to email members who may (like me!) only visit occasionally and let them know the date/time of meetings such as this and, for example, to invite contributions to the list thread?
@James_Nylen: I think “for Creators” makes sense here, because being brutally honest CP still has some things to work through before it is ready for use by people who expect things to be seamless
We had an email list running at one point and we have talked about getting that going again.
From my perspective it seems like that is another thing that needs a volunteer, it is a great idea but does require some time investment.
@Viktor: Does forum have digest type feature?
@James_Nylen: Yes, the forum also has a digest.
You can configure your settings for that somewhere in there…
@Viktor: Maybe a tutorial would be helpful.
@Wade_Striebel: There are a ton of features to the forums so I think we can definitely start something like that
@James_Nylen: In general though an email newsletter could help us out a lot. Scott used that to drive a lot of activity to the project initially.
@Pádraig: I’d be interested in helping out there. I think it would be really worthwhile.
@Viktor: Yes, that could be good.
@James_Nylen: Alright. We have an account with Mailgun at the moment, but I haven’t looked at their newsletter stuff.
@Viktor: we would need newsletter app to send through Mailgun. I don’t think they have Mailchimp type stuff. Last time I checked.
@James_Nylen: they do appear to have something
most of them do these days
@Wade_Striebel: They seem to point you at Mailjet
@Viktor: Yes, they did acquire them.
@Michelle_Coe: I’m not familiar with Mailjet — but I can’t imagine it’s that difficult.
@Wade_Striebel: I like MailCoach, it is self hosted, but again is a paid software that isn’t cheap upfront
@Viktor: Sendy is a good cheap option.
@Wade_Striebel: We may be able to do this through the forums
@Pádraig: How many forum members are there, approximately?
@Viktor: There’s always good old PHPList.
@Wade_Striebel: Uh nevermind, it is the opposite - we can subscribe to a mailing list and have the emails show up in the category not send to a mailing list
@James_Nylen: PHPList sounds like it’d be fairly easy to host
They changed a lot since I used it maybe 10 years ago
@James_Nylen: oh they have a .org and a .com
@Wade_Striebel: @Michelle_Coe anything else on the original agenda?
@Michelle_Coe: No, this was really it.
I think we’ve had a really productive meeting…
@James_Nylen: > Delivering campaigns successfully using phpList requires a properly configured SMTP server (for sending mail), an IP address with a good reputation, and correct configuration of DNS, SPF, and DMARC for successful campaign delivery.
those things are not trivial, so it might make sense to work with what our smtp server provider recommends
@Michelle_Coe: We are past an hour and I do need to get going… I think we have a lot of action items to work on.
@James_Nylen: here we are managing private data, but only of people who have specifically opted in to receive communication from us, so I would be ok with letting a third party help us host this
or the phplist hosted option would be another one to consider
@Wade_Striebel: Cool, I can export the meeting to the forums but we can continue discussing other bits - like I would like to follow up on the directory chat @Viktor mentioned
@James_Nylen: I’d like to follow up on general website updates that he mentioned also
I have a quick question for probably Michelle and Tim
@Michelle_Coe: Wade if you could do that, that would be great… Please feel free to continue the conversations here and I’ll catch up later…