View in #marketing on Slack
Market segments discussion
New page on main site
Marketing plan for August/September
Further website updates
Good morning everyone — not sure who’s here so we’ll wait a minute until I see some waves (thanks Wade!)
!channel marketing meeting here now
@Michelle_Coe: I know @Linas_Šimonis and @Pádraig had responded to the marketing meeting Doodle so I’ve tagged them just in case they’re nearby… otherwise we can get started; I want to be mindful of everyone’s time.
@Linas_Šimonis: @Linas_Šimonis has joined the channel
@Michelle_Coe: So, James posted some good thoughts yesterday on market segments and there was a little discussion on it — the summary of it is that “ClassicPress is for creators.”
@James_Nylen: I like it, obviously
@Wade_Striebel: I like it
@James_Nylen: “creators” instead of “builders” is a good change
@Joy_Reynolds: Sounds like Ubuntu Studio.
@James_Nylen: website creators, in our case
@Wade_Striebel: I think it is clearer and gives us something to “market”
@James_Nylen: I was trying to build off of the previously discussed “CP is for developers” idea
which is great, many of our users now are agencies that build sites for clients, but we also have people who do their own sites
and aren’t necessarily developers
@Michelle_Coe: Ubuntu’s tagline: “A free and open operating system for creative people.”
I like “creators” too. I really liked “builders” but I do understand the connection between builders and page builders.
Plus, it’s short, which is a plus!
@1stepforward: Better late than never…
@Michelle_Coe: Welcome! Thanks for joining us!
@ElisabettaC77: :skin-tone-2: me lurking around.
@Joy_Reynolds: Is the goal to keep it short?
Do you put website creators, or just creators?
@Michelle_Coe: Yes, for a tagline, short is good.
@Wade_Striebel: Short and memorable
@Michelle_Coe: website creators sounds more like web professionals to me… leaves out hobbyists
@1stepforward: Just catching up. Yes, I much prefer creators over builders.
@Michelle_Coe: So… on the home page of our current site, at the top — what if we did something like (I’m going to try to describe this with words so bear with me)…
ClassicPress is for…
@Joy_Reynolds: Does changing the focus cause a problem with CP’s image?
@Michelle_Coe: and then we could have creators as the main/first word, but have that word then cycle through with other words…
@Joy_Reynolds: I like the inclusivity
@Michelle_Coe: “animated” — in a sense
@ElisabettaC77: I think @Joy_Reynolds nailed down the one question we need to answer. IMHO it does, but in a positive way
@1stepforward: The inclusive CMS
@Michelle_Coe: (is that concept coming through in my description? Or I can look for an example)
@Wade_Striebel: I think it makes sense, and I like it
@James_Nylen: I think we shouldn’t be changing our focus or branding every few months, but other than that it’s a good thing to be looking at again
@Michelle_Coe: Joy, to answer your question — I don’t think we’ve changed the focus as much as we’ve expanded it
@James_Nylen: “for creators” (i.e. people who build sites) is much clearer than “the business-focused CMS”
@Michelle_Coe: And it’s been 2 years now since our inception — the brand undergoing an expansion/clarification is very common in any startup
@James_Nylen: maybe we could add boxes for each “persona” below the main tagline, kind of like the 3 we have today?
and those can link out to our “For XYZ” landing pages
@Michelle_Coe: I agree with this. The content on the For XYZ landing pages doesn’t even need to be too extensive, it just needs to speak directly to the focus group
@fwolf: Watches from the sides
@James_Nylen: maybe not something to finish and decide today but we need a full replacement for this tagline
> ClassicPress: The business-focused CMS. Powerful. Versatile. Predictable.
> ClassicPress: The creator-focused CMS. For developers, hobbyists, agencies, and more!
@James_Nylen: “inclusive” in the sense that we include everyone, let’s not get into the more modern post-truth connotations of that term
@Michelle_Coe: I really like ClassicPress is for Creators.
@Joy_Reynolds: but that simple statement doesn’t actually say what it is.
@James_Nylen: that works on the site but shouldn’t the tagline say CMS or something like it?
@Michelle_Coe: I think that we can work the inclusivity concept into our messaging but I hesitate to jump on the inclusive bandwagon verbatim because of the other interest groups that are using it right now. It could make us look like we’re trying to co-opt the message for our own use
and you’re right, we should probably include CMS in there somehow; I just really love the snappiness of ClassicPress is for Creators
@Wade_Striebel: > ClassicPress is for Creators. A CMS for developers … hobbyists … agencies… etc
@Michelle_Coe: It’s like Nike’s “Just Do It.”
@1stepforward: Just looking at Wix and Squarespace. Wix say “The Leader in Website Creation”. Squarespace say “The leader in website design”. Not much imagination there but I think they both make a strong statement.
@Joy_Reynolds: “website creators”
@Michelle_Coe: But I like how Wade is expanding on this…
@ElisabettaC77: ClassicPress is the creators-focused CMS. Stable, secure and powerful
@Michelle_Coe: ClassicPress: the CMS for Creators
@1stepforward: I like that one
@ElisabettaC77: Or CMS made for creators
@Joy_Reynolds: I actually don’t like the acronym, but that’s just me.
@Michelle_Coe: @1stepforward in our conversation yesterday you had a good title for a fourth block on the home page, do you remember what it was? I can look it up
@Raymund: What would be a differentiating factor between CP from WP that can be included in CP’s tagline or description?
@1stepforward: Instantly Familiar.
@James_Nylen: CP gets out of your way and lets you create your site
@Michelle_Coe: That’s right.
@ElisabettaC77: Stability and security first?
@Michelle_Coe: ClassicPress: the CMS for Creators. Stable. Block-free. Instantly familiar.
@1stepforward: The CMS for Everyone??
@James_Nylen: looking good
@ElisabettaC77: I don’t like that we market it as anti GB… We are far more than that.
@James_Nylen: I think “Block-free” is a nice segue into that next topic
@ElisabettaC77: And wars aren’t good
@Raymund: I like the term “stable”.
@Michelle_Coe: ClassicPress: the CMS for Creators. Stable. Secure. Instantly familiar.
@Raymund: I definitely like the term “secure” as well, @Michelle_Coe.
@Joy_Reynolds: The Classic part of the name is all that, no need to repeat.
@James_Nylen: classic doesn’t always mean stable or familiar (or secure for that matter)
@klein: Stable and Secure are the things I use CP for.
@ElisabettaC77: Instantly familiar means we are committed to make user experience better over time… In terms of learning curve also (we need to consider people that are new to the web dev thing and approach us for the first time without knowing what WP is IMHO)
@Michelle_Coe: Okay… throwing a wrench in now… do we care that Joomla’s home page says: “The Flexible Platform Empowering Website Creators” ?
Which, BTW, I think is way too long
@Joy_Reynolds: Yes, it is a concern
@James_Nylen: why is that a problem?
@1stepforward: No. i think it’s horrid.
@Joy_Reynolds: The big players all sound alike.
@ElisabettaC77: Because it’s basically same branding speaking same words to same niche
We may sound as cold soup reheated
@Michelle_Coe: To what Elisabetta said, that’s going to be our issue too. There’s only so many words in the English language.
@ElisabettaC77: I know. If marketing was easy…
@1stepforward: I’m not a fan of buzzwords. Empowering is one of those. It’s overused imho.
@Michelle_Coe: So we need to decide if we care, or not. I think it’s doable, but only if we make it more impactful. Which, frankly, I don’t think will be toohard to do.
@Joy_Reynolds: “What website do you want to create today?”
@Michelle_Coe: That sounds like another brand, I don’t remember which one. Microsoft?
@ElisabettaC77: What website are you creating today? Focus on action is better than on intentions
@Joy_Reynolds: that’s why I said it
@James_Nylen: I don’t think our market actually overlaps very much with Joomla
most of our users will be people who are already familiar with WP and are looking for an alternative with guaranteed support for the classic editor
@1stepforward: I think it’s WordPress…and the rest
@ElisabettaC77: Personally I don’t like Joomla. Mainly because in Italy every false marketer selling fake likes uses joomla
@Michelle_Coe: Naming ClassicPress as a CMS in the tagline is good for SEO, so although I normally wouldn’t be up for the acronym, I think it works here
@Joy_Reynolds: but isn’t it more than creating the site? It’s also changing it, and maintaining it, and adding more
@Wade_Striebel: I have to run into a meeting, I will catch up when this is moved to the forums
@Michelle_Coe: I don’t disagree w/ that, Joy, but we need to keep this tagline to like… 6 words or less
We can be more descriptive beneath the initial tagline
@James_Nylen: I think “creation” covers the stuff that happens after a site is set up too
@Joy_Reynolds: well, I meant to explore what we are about, and then shrink it down.
@1stepforward: Changing and maintaining are the boring bits. Creating is exciting.
@Joy_Reynolds: There are importers for a lot of formats.
It’s not like you’re stuck once you pick a solution.
I was just now answering a forum question about moving from Wix to WP.
@fwolf: And if there is no importer for your current system, there certainly are folks like me who know how to get things moved over
@ElisabettaC77: This consideration widens and dilutes target too much IMHO @Joy_Reynolds
@Joy_Reynolds: OK, but it is different than the other big players.
@Michelle_Coe: I think that was Joy’s point — to take the wide view first and distill it down
@1stepforward: It’s interesting that the likes of Softaculous and Installatron put WordPress in their Blog software category. Joomla etc. (and of course CP) are in the CMS category.
@Michelle_Coe: That is really interesting, @1stepforward!
We are at 10:38 so maybe we should move this discussion to the forums.
Before we do that though — do we have enough agreement on the first piece: “ClassicPress: the CMS for Creators.”
Or does it need more discussion?
We can have a short explanatory paragraph beneath it that expands on it
@Joy_Reynolds: blend in with the scenery
@1stepforward: Works for me.
@ElisabettaC77: For me too
@Michelle_Coe: Joy, if you have a better concept that you feel is a stronger candidate, I’m happy to hear it. However, we are part of the larger ecosystem, and to that extent we will always be using some of the same words. There’s no good way to get around that.
Unless you can think of one?
Like I said — happy to hear it
@1stepforward: “Creator” covers everyone. You use CP to create a website whether you’re a hobbyist, developer or other.
@Joy_Reynolds: with the way the community is set up, it truly is more “democratized publishing”, but you can’t use that
@James_Nylen: “ClassicPress: the CMS for Creators.” has my agreement
@Joy_Reynolds: simple, secure web publishing
@Michelle_Coe: As soon as I hear publishing I think WordPress… is this a good thing? Or a bad thing?
@1stepforward: Bad imho
@Joy_Reynolds: I know, I was thinking of synonyms
@1stepforward: A CMS is much more than publishing. Creating works well for me.
@Joy_Reynolds: I don’t see CP as a CMS
@1stepforward: Why not?
@Joy_Reynolds: You don’t really manage content.
@Michelle_Coe: Perhaps you don’t use it in that way… but many others do. I don’t see CP as a publishing platform, personally…
@klein: Depends on what you use it for
@James_Nylen: publishing is a subset of a CMS
@Joy_Reynolds: There are a lot of things you have to change to truly manage content.
@Michelle_Coe: All 40+ of my current sites are CMS first with a publishing component sometimes… and even then the client rarely publishes anything :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:
@Joy_Reynolds: and especially that flaw in the edit flow of unpublishing a page pending approval
@1stepforward: I think we’re going off topic now. The definition of a CMS is a huge discussion…for some other time.
@Michelle_Coe: Okay — we’re off on a tangent now and I don’t want to get too far afield. I suggest we take the tagline and move it to the forums and put it out for further discussion.
Next agenda item: new page on the main site — thanks so much to @1stepforward for creating a new page for us! It’s here: https://www.classicpress.net/reasons-to-switch-to-classicpress-from-wordpress-4-9/
This is geared toward capturing the 25%ish of the market that’s still on pre-Gut WP. and/or Classic Editor.
I’ll be able to use a lot of this to build a social media campaign that should last us a couple of months, so if you’re on Twitter, Facebook, or LinkedIn please keep an eye out and share —
@James_Nylen: why do we specifically call out WP 4.9 in the title there?
@1stepforward: Mostly because it’s an easy target to define and easier to target via SEO.
@Michelle_Coe: The language on this page is much stronger than our messaging up to this point. Our more gentle approach up to this point has been deliberate in order to “fly under the WP radar”, but we’re two years old now and have delivered on what we’ve promised up to this point, so… a little swagger is okay, IMO.
@1stepforward: But the article does cover people who may have upgraded to WP5 but are still using the Classic Editor.
@Michelle_Coe: To @ElisabettaC77’s point — we don’t want to start a war so as an entity, CP does still need to use a little discretion, but…
I like how @1stepforward got a little cheeky
@James_Nylen: going after our target users more directly vs starting a war?
@1stepforward: Me? Cheeky?
@James_Nylen: people still using WP and the classic editor should be thinking about what happens when they drop support, and many of them won’t be
@Michelle_Coe: We aren’t saying anything that’s untrue and we’re not slandering anyone/thing. We do need to make sure to take the high road, but hey — sometimes the truth stings a little.
@Joy_Reynolds: Do we have a style or tone guide for documents?
@James_Nylen: also we are basically all here because we wanted a block-free alternative
@klein: Honestly, if anybody in WordPress starts a war over ClassicPress approaching users who clearly weren’t going to update any time soon, I don’t think they’ll find much ground. You’re not kicking them down, you’re approaching people who are already showing that WP5 isn’t for them.
@ElisabettaC77: Yes but what I mean is we have to think in a 5 years from now perspective. In 5 years there will be people who never met classic editor and are born under GB only. That is the war we need to avoid. We all know how WP people can be evangelists on the aggressive side…
@Michelle_Coe: @Joy_Reynolds we do not yet have anything in our style guide that speaks to brand voice. Since James, Wade and I are the ones that are vetting anything that goes out right now, it didn’t seem terribly necessary. It will become necessary in the future but we have more pressing issues right now…
@ElisabettaC77: (and I mean, not all the people. But at least locally I have been shut up in unpleasant ways when suggesting that WP is going somewhere I don’t like)
@James_Nylen: I think we will probably re-brand again within 5 years
@1stepforward: Right now, I would say we should be thinking about now. Time is of the essence. We need to try and capture the 25% because that audience will almost certainly be 0% in 5 years.
@ElisabettaC77: Ok. That is cool
@Michelle_Coe: A brand is always evolving. It must, to remain relevant.
Right now, we are relevant to the 25%.
So we need to speak to them now.
@Michelle_Coe: That said — this one page on the site is not our entire brand.
So other aspects now must be developed, so when this round of marketing is over, we have more to say to other market segments.
@James_Nylen: I think this tagline works well for existing WP users, especially the “Stable” and “Instantly familiar” bits
[July 28th, 2020 10:28 AM] blueskyphoenixllc: ClassicPress: the CMS for Creators. Stable. Secure. Instantly familiar.
@ElisabettaC77: Makes sense.
@Michelle_Coe: So I’d like to ask you all to think about the next most relevant market that we should speak to, and then let’s think about how to develop content that resonates with them.
@ElisabettaC77: And is direct
Next market… The new ones. The ones that never made a site ever. This implies telling them why we are better than the others…
@Joy_Reynolds: Every day I read WP forum questions that start with “I’m new to WP”.
@ElisabettaC77: The creators tagline works well In my opinion because it contains these people already
But we need a way to talk with just them.
@1stepforward: Do we still need a vote on “ClassicPress: the CMS for Creators. Stable. Secure. Instantly familiar”?
Personally, I like it.
@Michelle_Coe: Thumbs up or down: “ClassicPress: the CMS for Creators. Stable. Secure. Instantly familiar”
@1stepforward: Motion carried
@Michelle_Coe: So, for the next segment, I do think “new” is an excellent choice, however, I also think “new” carries with it some high-maintenance, for better or worse…
because these users will need help. Lots of it.
@James_Nylen: also inherently harder to reach those people I guess?
@ElisabettaC77: New means having a system to help them learn
@Michelle_Coe: So, we need to be prepared for that.
@1stepforward: New users are more likely to be attracted to something with a large user base.
@Michelle_Coe: We don’t have that system in place yet… sure, there is a lot out there for WP, but I don’t think it’s wise to just point them over there and say — go learn that and come back when you figure it out.
@ElisabettaC77: I am working on something like that on the side (personal project)… When ready we will see if we can implement it in our docs
@Michelle_Coe: Also — I’d like to revisit the possibility of capturing more developers.
We need contributors, but first we need developers to take note.
We do have the plugin developers page, and I think theme developers are feeling the squeeze as well so it might be good to focus over in that direction
@ElisabettaC77: That means widening the buzz where devs are. But WP shouts louder…
@1stepforward: Yes, themes are a bit thin on the ground at the moment. That was something I was considering looking into as part of my Ecosystem role.
@Michelle_Coe: @Joy_Reynolds had mentioned creating something similar to WP’s theme developers manual, but that seems like an extensive project. Am I correct in that assumption?
@ElisabettaC77 sometimes a whisper gets more attention. I don’t care about WP’s shouting. We can reach them, but we need to have messaging specifically for them.
@Joy_Reynolds: It applies to all docs, since you don’t really want to direct people to WP docs when there aren’t any here.
@1stepforward: But I’d need some help from the community in determining exactly what to target.
@Michelle_Coe: I would agree with that, Joy, but again — creating a manual seems like a monumental task, is it not?
@Michelle_Coe: So… since none of us has the bandwidth to take that on, what’s the alternative?
@ElisabettaC77: One thought I had, is every little release WP creates a flare up of very similar posts “what’s new in WP xxx”. And that releasing in very short spans causes the discussion around it never to fade on the side. is something like that doable? I mean stable content, not social media posts that get buried in timelines after a couple hours…
@Michelle_Coe: I mean really — at it’s core — it’s reaching out to WP devs and saying… “Hey, you know that thing you’re doing over there? Did you know you can come do that over here?”
@1stepforward: I think we’ve discussed this before. Can we fork the WP codex? Fork it before it becomes too GB oriented.
@Joy_Reynolds: The codex is available on the Wayback machine, but it has mostly been migrated to live under support/article (code named HelpHub).
@Michelle_Coe: I believe James snagged it before it was migrated, but I could be wrong about that.
@Linas_Šimonis: Sorry, I am late to the party.
@Joy_Reynolds: The codex has a lot of very old info…
@Linas_Šimonis: just skimmed discussion and very sorry, but didn’t like it.
@Michelle_Coe: Hi Linas! Lots to catch up on. I’ll post the transcript in the Forums later so you don’t have to scroll back if you don’t want to.
@Linas_Šimonis: Very very academic discussion about tagline.
@Michelle_Coe: Well, we’re sorry you disapprove.
@1stepforward: Maybe the codex could be made live somewhere and ask for community help in updating it?
@Linas_Šimonis: The starting point should be the question “why to choose us, instead of WP?”
@Michelle_Coe: @Linas_Šimonis we’ve moved on from that now.
@Linas_Šimonis: The, based on 1 (max - 1 main plus 1 secondary) argument to create the message.
@1stepforward: Going back to the last meeting, we discussed an “evangelist” type person. Just wondering if there are any further developments on that front?
@Michelle_Coe: There are not from my end, has anyone else come up with some ideas for evangelists?
@James_Nylen: seems like a hard sell
@Linas_Šimonis: This answer will help everywhere - in searching target group, creating content, etc, etc.
@1stepforward: I know our first choice very politely turned us down.
@Michelle_Coe: Right now, I’d agree, and honestly, we have a couple of wonderful evangelists in our midst who have fallen quiet as of late. I’m very sad to see that happen.
@1stepforward: So, is that one for the backburner?
@Linas_Šimonis: I hope (and, from my experience, it always happens), if you have a strong distinction from competitor, evangelist will come without approaching.
Because always, always there are some people, who didn’t like market leader.
@Michelle_Coe: @1stepforward IMO, I think that “family comes first”. Once we win back the evangelists within our own community, then we can look at expanding outward. And to Linas’ point — over time as we differentiate ourselves, we will gain new evangelists.
@Linas_Šimonis: But also, this should be backed by real actions, i mean, real development.
@ElisabettaC77: And there, how do we boost development without devs?
@Michelle_Coe: I agree that we must back our words with actions. But right now our strongest differentiator is that we are stable, secure, and instantly familiar. So we are leaning on that.
@Linas_Šimonis: by introducing small, but visible changes.
@Joy_Reynolds: Most want to join, to help what’s already going on. They don’t want to be the initiator. So something needs to be happening, that they can join.
@1stepforward: I think it’s all part of the same issue. We need to increase our user base and our profile.
@Michelle_Coe: In time we will evolve again, as the core development team is able to bring about new changes.
@ElisabettaC77: What is going to happen when we release the directory for plugin/themes?
@James_Nylen: I’m hoping that will be a big boost
@ElisabettaC77: Is that a change that can attract devs?
@Linas_Šimonis: definitely we will be very different from WP.
@Michelle_Coe: When the directory is released I think that will be a huge boost, and we can tweak our messaging accordingly
@Linas_Šimonis: A big reason for plugin developers to join. Especially those, who are not in WP repository.
@Michelle_Coe: but in the meantime, I like where we’re at. We have something to go on for the next few months at the very least.
@James_Nylen I haven’t been able to sit in on the core meetings but I’m sure you’ll let marketing know when it looks like we’re getting closer to release the directory
@Linas_Šimonis: Why not focus marketing efforts to attract developers?
@Raymund: If I am new to blogging or website creation, most probably, I would be able to discover WP first, not CP, due to SEO and back links to WP, etc. I really believe CP should be marketed for enterprises/businesses… but that it can also be used by beginners.
@Michelle_Coe: @Linas_Šimonis are you volunteering to come up with some developer-focused marketing content? Because if so, I’m happy to use it!
@Linas_Šimonis: Today I tweeted a call for developers to join CP and develop some features.
@Michelle_Coe: Great, I’ll retweet that. Feel free to keep doing that, or send me some messaging so I can tweet it from the CP account directly.
I’m open to ANYONE who wants to send me content I can use.
@Linas_Šimonis: I think, everyone should join similar efforts. I will definitely do every time, when I will find a good reason for a tweet, like today.
@Michelle_Coe: Okay — it’s 11:32. I need to stop here.
I’ll summarize this meeting and post it in the forums. Action items for next meeting:
• think about the next market segment you want to go for
• like/retweet/share social media stuff you see from the CP account
• tweet/post about CP and tag us so I can retweet/share
• come up with content you’d like the CP account to post/share on social (whether for creators or developers)
@Linas_Šimonis: @Michelle_Coe I am always available to help, except writing long texts. But for short ideas you can approach me anytime.
@Michelle_Coe: I think that’s enough homework for one month.
@Linas_Šimonis: What about campaign for developers to join?
@Michelle_Coe: @Linas_Šimonis — please consider the conversation of this meeting to be your gilded invitation to come up with “short ideas” as above. You have been approached. I look forward to your contribution.
@James_Nylen: thanks Michelle
@1stepforward: Thank you.
@Michelle_Coe: You’re very welcome!
@Michelle_Coe: Thank you all for being here!